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 Post subject: Thoughts on including the new Hobbit releases?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:30 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Title says it all really. There and Back Again gave a number of new units and altered existing ones. Additionally, some of the new heroes may have special rules that could be incorporated in Battle Companies, on top of which there are the army special rules that are worth considering. Of course, BCs are always purely from their own particular list, so would you automatically include the extra rules, leave them out entirely or add them as a special rule that can be unlocked by a hero in the list?

Some things on the various warbands:
-Thranduil's Halls. Can probably stay as it is, the extra armour doesn't change too much and all level-ups remain sensible.

-Lake-town. No new units, but Hilda's and Percy's special rules could be worth considering for heroes.

-Gundabad. The new Berserker would replace the near-identical Brawler. Goblin Mercenaries could be included here, or in the Goblin Town list?

-Iron Hills, the big one. Surely deserving of their own warband, although they have few options. It could be based on the current one, with basic Dwarf Warriors, becoming Iron Hills Veterans, becoming the proper Iron Hills Dwarves. Stat-wise a logical progression, but their shieldwall special rule is fairly pointless if there are no or few others around. It may then be worth skipping the Veteran step, going straight to the IH Dwarf level (with crossbow for archers). It would feel right to insert a promotion between that one and the very powerful Goat Rider, although I suppose many other troops (Mahûd, Black Númenóreans, Dol Amroth) also take the 10+ points leap in a single promotion. Various special rules of Dain and the captain would again make for fine option in this company.

So - has anybody given any thought to this yet? Ideas?
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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on including the new Hobbit releases?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:39 am 
Kinsman
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I have given it a lot of thought. The iron hills stuff is new and interesting but also now has probably earned their own faction. Black Numenoreans are getting the bat, Dol Amroth too I believe. So Iron hills should not get the jump either.

The odd bit to work with is that the Iron Hills Veteran option exists but so does the new Iron Hill Warriors. I could rename the Iron Hills Veterans and make a Iron Hills faction, but how much do the Iron Hills really have of their own? Hardly enough for a satisfying battle company to say the least. So in the interest of strengthening an existing faction I now look to buffing Durin's Folk or Erebor. Erebor is a weird faction, simply put, as it is double dipping and is not very focused.

I'd introduce Iron Hill Warriors, despite weird name progression, in Durin's Folk to be either:
- a T2 Choice for Durin's Folk, competing with Veterans, and then Ram Riders being a T3 promotion.
- a T3 Choice after Veterans, but competing with the other Dwarven Elites and then having Ram Riders a T4 to justify the huge point jump.

The problem with the second one is that it makes Rams hard to get and so you are effectively only going to have heroes on rams. The 1st one is manageable but then makes it unlikely that you will ever go Veteran path for Khazad Guard.

Erebor:
Make them a promotion of Erebor Dwarves as an alternative to Grimhammers with Rams as Tier 3, but then what happens to Grimhammers?

Iron Hills as their own faction:
Dwarf Warrior with Bow-> Iron Hills Veteran Ranger -> Iron Guard
Dwarf Warrior -> Iron Hills Veteran Warrior -> Iron Hills Warrior -> Ram Rider
(Quite small, though I might just leave out the Dwarf Warrior all together)

I'd be very tempted to just roll Dwarves all into one package, maybe give them more special rules as compensation.

Dwarf Warrior → Iron Hills Veteran
Iron Hills Veteran Warrior→ Khazâd Guard OR Iron Hills Warrior
Dwarf Ranger → Iron Hills Veteran Ranger
Iron Hills Veteran Ranger → Iron Guard OR Iron Hills Warrior w/ Xbow
Warrior of Erebor → Grim Hammer OR Iron Hills Warrior
Iron Hills Warrior → Ram Rider

I am still working on it to see what flows best, but this is my thought process.

TL;DR I think unifying Durin's folk, because they already have the Iron Hills Veteran upgrade, with Iron Hills Forgeworld helps dwarves in general and still makes sense. Throw in Erebor because Erebor and Dale is not very satisfying unless you make up a bunch of profiles to make it work.

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Last edited by Commissariat on Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on including the new Hobbit releases?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:44 am 
Elven Warrior
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A very familiar thought process by the looks of things!

Given the number of elite units in the army, my preference would be to create two different lists (so as to reduce competition between the choices), although my mind also has yet to settle on a particular configuration. Thematically and in terms of equipment (i.e. spears), Warriors of Erebor may be a precursor to the Iron Hills warriors (splitting them from Dale sounds fine too me).

Perhaps:
Erebor (pre- and post-Smaug)
Warrior of Erebor > Iron Hills Warrior > Goat Rider
Dwarf Ranger with throwing axes > Grimhammer
Dwarf Ranger with bow > Iron Hills Dwarf with crossbow

Could include the Veteran between Ranger and crossbow, although it doesn't make sense in the throwing axe version given the strength reduction that would follow. Unlike the old Dwarf Warrior with bow/Ranger with longbow conundrum, I'd feel the ranged troop upgrade here is certainly worth it: no movement, but better armour, same range and doubling the missile strength.

Durin's Folk then:
Dwarf Warrior > Veteran
Veteran with bow > Iron Guard
Veteran with shield/Two-handed weapon > Khazad Guard


Erebor will have the stronger final melee troop in the form of cavalry, but the second list has the superior Iron Guard. Alternatively, if combined in a single list, the Iron Guard would stat- and pointswise be a reasonable pick as the missing link between the Goat Rider and whatever precedes them (F4, S4, no shields). Having the Goats as a Tier 4 seems reasonable given their power and the fairly strong other options in the list. Possibly:

Dwarf ranger with throwing axes > Veteran with throwing axes or Grimhammer
Veteran with throwing axes > Iron Guard > Goat rider

Allowing you to take either a tougher unit early on, or play the long game and eventually be rewarded with the Goat. I don't currently have the time to look at what remains and whether it warrants a seperate list (unless replicated, not having Iron Guard would be a major setback), but hope the above aids somehow.
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