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 Post subject: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:02 am 
Kinsman
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Is this army list enough competitive?

*Orc Captain, warg
-6 warg rider (2 shields)
-2 giant spider

*Orc Shaman
-4 morannon orc (2 with shield, 2 with shield and spear)
-5 orc warrior (1 item each)
-1 mordor troll

*Barrow-wight
-12 orc warrior (1 item each)

Overall: 500 points, 33 units, 3 might, 2 mage, fun units.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:29 pm 
Wayfarer
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Hello there,

I think your list is very interesting. I really like the first Warband, you do not see many Giant Spiders in typical Mordor lists. But let's look a little bit more detailed at your army:

- 33 Models at 500 Point is ok I think, not that many but not too few either
- I would replace the Orc Captain on Warg and the Mordor-Troll for a Mordor Troll Chieftain. He is just great! Monsters with might almost always have value and you even save 10 point that you can spend otherwhise (even though you loose the mobility of your Warg)
- I would try to include a banner in your army. 2 out of the 6 Scenarios give you Victory Points for having a banner.
- This is not a "pure" Mordor Army. The Barrow-wight is from the Angmar Faction. If you want a sorcerer, I would stick to an unnamed Ringwraith (2/7/1).
- Your force has pratically only 2 might, because you will cast a channeled Fury with your Orc Shaman. Replacing your Barrow-wight with the Ringwraith from the point above, you will get a little bit more of that much needed Might that was previously making your army much weaker.
- If do not mind having no "aggressive" Mage, I would suggest getting a Taskmaster for even more might.
- Even though the Giant Spiders are very cool, I think that these 40 Points could have been spend on the stuff that I listed above.

To sum it up, I would suggest building your 500p Mordor force in the following way:

--> Combat Hero (Troll Chieftain or Shagrat, Warleader of Cirith Ungol)
Leading Orcs + Banner (Morannons > Regual Orcs, but the regular ones save a lot of points)

--> Orc Shaman
Leading Orcs

--> Either Ringwraith (2/7/1) or Mordor-Taskmaster
Leading Orcs (a few Wargriders should be included)

I hope that I could give you some advice.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:17 pm 
Kinsman
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Thank you a lot for answer!

My experience of using banner in 500p orc army has been pathetic - most enemies have higher f-value, and trying to protect the flag is hard = easily a few ten points waisted.

But I got an idea of what you said about replaces... Would it be worth to replace mordor troll + orc shaman with Troll Chieftain? And the 10 points left to be used to upgrade Barrow-wight to Taskmaster:

*Troll Chieftain
-4 morannon orcs (2 with shield, 2 with shield and spear)
-5 orc warrior (1 item each)

*Orc Captain on warg
-6 warg rider (2 shield)
-2 giant spider

*Taskmaster
-3 morannon orcs (1 item each)
-8 orc warriors (1 item each)

Overall: 500p, 31 units, 6 might + ability.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:13 pm 
Kinsman
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I would drop all those Orcs and make then Morannons. They are just so much better for their points. A budget wraith + Troll Chieftan I think are excellent choices.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:57 am 
Kinsman
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So, how likely is that a budget wraith is more useful than a taskmaster, if both are the same price?

Most enemies do not have strong mages at 500 points. Or?

The point of having a ringwraith would basically be to counter if enemy has also a budget ringwraith?
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:05 am 
Wayfarer
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A budget ringwraith if often used as a cheap anti-hero unit. The ringwraith can shut down your opponents most powerful hero with sap will and transfix. If your enemy is fielding a hero that costs over 100 points in a 500 points army, he is most likely not to have other heros that is worth shutting down with magic. That way you can focus all your magic on that one hero.

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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:45 am 
Kinsman
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I have a troll chieftain in my army of 500 points. So, enemies are unlikely going to have anything to match the troll in melee.

I can see the usefulness of budget wraith only when the enemy would also have a ringwraith. But I am not sure if it would be wise to choose a hero for such a limited (and unthematic) scenario. Wraiths have no reason to fight between each others, as they all follow the will of Sauron...

In case of enemy has strong infrantry, Taskmaster could help a lot giving free heroic combats or similar actions...
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:02 pm 
Kinsman
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The value of the generic ringwraith is in the flexibility it offers. It can neutralize enemy monsters, combat heroes and spells casters with Transfix, Compel, Sap Will. It reduces opponent courage via Harbinger of Evil. And it has a decent courage value of its own, making it's Stand Fast more useful. They're a good value for their points cost. Add a fell beast, if you want them more combat focused, but even on a horse, they're quite good (just not combat monsters).

I like the Taskmaster as well, but it's value seems more dependent upon dice rolling.

I prefer Morannons as well, at least in the front line, for superior Str and Def. But you can mix up the Orcs and Morannon's to save points.

The following list is 500 pts:

Warband 1: Wraith on Horse w 2 extra points of M, W, F
5 Morannons w/shield
6 Orcs w/spear, shield
1 Giant Spider

Warband 2: Orc Shaman
5 Morannons w/shield
6 Orcs w/spear, shield
1 Giant Spider

Warband 3: Orc Taskmaster
7 Morannons w/shield
5 Orcs w/spear, shield

If you want the Mordor Troll Chieftain, you probably need to replace a hero (the taskmaster probably makes the most sense, as the wraith and shaman are kind of must haves), lose the spiders, and drop a few units as well, so it's costly. But it is good. Monster heroes are almost always good.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:08 pm 
Kinsman
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For a few points more than a Troll Chieftain, you could have Witch King (3m 10w 2f) on Fell Beast...which needs careful playing as a monster, but not susceptable to Transfix, anyway.

Take Kardush instead of a normal Shaman, and you have guaranteed Fury, with rechargeable Will and a S6 bit of magic punch--and a disposible Will battery for your Nazgel, if needed.

Taskmaster is worth the risk. But all this will replace spiders and banners: worth it. Morranon Shields in front, Orc Spears behind: sturdy, simple.

36 units total. Magic, monster, 7 Might (with possible free Might), endless Fury + S6 magic hit. Not sure any Good army and few Evil could match this at 500 points.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:02 pm 
Kinsman
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Well, I will definitely keep the Fellbeast idea up, but for another army list. As I have a wish to use an old metallic mordor troll model for this battle...

Though i admit a fully mobile mordor list with warg riders and a fellbeast would be intriguing, i do not own the models right now...

So, how owuld this list work:

Witch king 2-10-2
-10 warg rider, shields
-2 warg riders, only hand weapon

-warg rider captain
-12 warg rider, shields
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:26 pm 
Kinsman
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[quote="Salattu"] ...a fully mobile mordor list [quote]

Fun. Not competative: the wargs that are not dropped by bows, will get one chance to charge. Hope they win, because with only two Attacks (on the charge) and lower Fight Value, the odds are are against you.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:09 pm 
Kinsman
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So... If I want a troll chieftain into army, is it a bad idea to have also cavalry (warg riders) in the army?
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:54 am 
Kinsman
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I have only played against wargs: even non-elf bows kill mount or (unshielded) rider on 5+ (like most cavalry) --and they'll need lots of Might to win Heroic Moves so they can charge again. If charged--with one Attack and lower Fight--they are dead.

So I mostly see them as support units, for long distance objectives, or for flanking. My friends who used to use them rarely do anymore.

That said, the most unlikely armies can do wonders in the hands of a good tactition. "Everyone underestimates Goblins," says a tournement winner.

Trolls are so easily stopped cold by Transfix, despite Brutal Power getting them back on the table. The Troll Chieftain is an awesome fighter--but so expensive with only one Will. Perhaps at 500 points, you'll fight against no magic. Then he is unstoppable. But can be fun to play, either way.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:19 pm 
Kinsman
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I personally approach this game in a way that... One army is not even supposed to beat all kind of enemies in all kind of situations... So, I do not really mind the low risc of having an enemy with a mage (saruman would be pricy, gandalf too, also enemies are not always playing Mordor...). In those situations this army would of course loose, and it is fine...

Then there is these enemies with huge amount of bows. If I want a troll chieftain, how can I beat an enemy with a lot of bows?
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:55 pm 
Kinsman
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The Mordor Troll Chieftain is an excellent unit, so if that's what you want to take, then take him!

How about this then (it's not too far from your initial list):

Warband 1
Mordor Troll Chieftain
6 Morannon Orcs w spear and shield
6 Mordor Orcs w spear

Warband 2
Orc Shaman
6 Morannon Orcs w spear and shield
1 Morannon Orc w spear
5 Mordor Orcs w spear

Warband 3
1 Orc Captain w Warg
4 Warg Riders
1 Giant Spider

500 pts, 32 models. You're a bit susceptible to magic, but otherwise you have a decent model count, a mobile strike force, and some variety of threats.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:01 pm 
Kinsman
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Ok this one looks nice... Just asking why so many spears? Wouldn't it be better to drop spears from let's say morannons (who have anyways high strenght) and get a couple more orc to last warband? I ask this as curious.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:37 pm 
Kinsman
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Yes - you could probably drop a fair number of spears. I kind of like the ability for units to be able to support each other, but they don't all have to have spears, so yes - trading a few in favor of another model or two is better.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:50 am 
Kinsman
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Ok I got inspired by what you said to... an extreme...

500p Wraith army:

*Ringwraith 2-7-0
-5 morannon orc
-5 orc warrior
-2 giant spider

*Ringwraith 2-7-0
-5 morannon orc
-5 orc warrior
-2 giant spider

*Ringwraith 1-7-0
-5 morannon orc
-5 orc warrior
-1 giant spider

Overall: 38 units, 5 might, spiders to cause wounds on transfized enemies.

Please comment!!!
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:30 pm 
Kinsman
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Personally, I think it's interesting, so I'd be interested in how it performs if you do play it. Maybe give some of the orcs spears, but give some axes/picks as well for piercing strikes.

It's a decent number of models, several spiders, and 3 spellcasters. So use the wraiths to tie up monsters/big heroes and compel some models out to where the spiders can get them? Should be fun to try out.
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 Post subject: Re: 500p mordor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:24 pm 
Kinsman
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Your enemies should tremble at this list!

You can shut down all heroes and monsters--only Undying on a Fell Beast might give you pause.

Max your Might: worth it.

I got different numbers in my Armybuilder: for 500 points, I got:

Naz 2 might, 1 extra will
5 orc spear
5 Mor orc
2 spiders

Naz 2 might, 1 extra will
5 orc spear
5 mor orc
2 spiders

Naz 2 might
5 orc spear
5 mor orc
1 spider
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