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 Post subject: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:24 pm 
Elven Warrior
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This Thursday I'll have a match against a Mordor Force. We are following the Throne of Skull list, with Army Bonus and such. I know there will be no fellbeast, nor named Nazgul on horseback. I have two list, both variations of my winning 1000 pts Gondorian Force (basically, I just removed a warband in the first list and boromir in the second). I'd like to hear your opinion about

List 1:
Gandalf the White (elven cloak) LEADER
6 Warriors of Minas Tirith w/shields
6 Citadel Guards

Boromir COWT (Lance,Horse, Shield)
6 Guards of the Fountain Guard w/Shield
6 Warriors of Minas Tirith/shield

Berengod
7 Warriors of Minas Tirith w/shields (1 w/banner)
5 Citadel Guards

a small force for that points side, with only 39 models and really focused on Boromir. The idea is to Strenghten his will in the first turn before charging into the enemy lines.

LIST 2

Gandalf the White (elven cloak) LEADER
5 Warriors of Minas Tirith w/shields
5 Citadel Guards

Faramir (Lance,Horse, Shield)
7 Knights w/shield (1 w/banner)

Damrod
6 Guards of the Fountain Guard w/Shield
6 Warriors of Minas Tirith/shield

Berengod
7 Warriors of Minas Tirith w/shields (1 w/banner)
5 Citadel Guards

Now, I'm more inclined towards this list. With the knights and their lances I have more killing power amongst the troops, however Faramir is neither as deadly or resistent as Boromir.

Any thoughts?


Last edited by Dikey on Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:55 pm 
Craftsman
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If there's no Nazgul at all, why don't you just pass on using Gandalf ?

Dropping his 200+ pts will allow you to go with Boromir CotWT mtd, Faramir mtd, Cirion, and Beregond, and then you'll still probably be able to fit in 48 warriors & knights at 1000pts, plus a banner or two...

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T'was in the darkest depths of Mordor, I met a girl so fair..
But Gollum, and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her..
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 Post subject: Re: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:31 pm 
Elven Warrior
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ja33 wrote:
If there's no Nazgul at all, why don't you just pass on using Gandalf ?

Dropping his 200+ pts will allow you to go with Boromir CotWT mtd, Faramir mtd, Cirion, and Beregond, and then you'll still probably be able to fit in 48 warriors & knights at 1000pts, plus a banner or two...


There will be no fast moving nazgul, but The Undying on foot is pretty much a given, with another one as a backup, that's why I kept Gandalf
We already played a 1000 pts (I'll soon upload my group first report), now we are going down to 800.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:08 pm 
Kinsman
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Guys... If there is no nazgul in the army of mordor, it usually means 1-2 monsters such as trolls or dragons... Against a monster a wizard is at its best. Against nazguls Gandalf cannot do much - just give will to his allies to avoid transfix.

So. Against nazguls... The best trick is actually to have a lot of cheap units. Or of course, you can have gandalf and another expensive hero, so you will give will to this expensive hero, but that would mean a useless 200+ points gandalf?
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 Post subject: Re: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:26 pm 
Kinsman
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Gandalf isn't that necessary against the wraiths (and in fact is a major target of the wraiths), but yes - he's super useful against monsters.

But he's SOOO expensive. I feel like you're going to be hard pressed to get his points back in the value that he adds to a force. Madril and an entire warband of rangers is 150-160 points, still 60-70 less than Gandalf. And those bows would be good against Monsters as well.

If you know you need a spell caster, go for it, but I'd almost consider allying in a single hero caster (Galadriel is a good choice, and much less expensive).

Lastly, in an 800 point game, I think a banner is an absolute must have.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:45 pm 
Kinsman
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Yeah, this is exactly what I tried to say. Gandalf is very pricy. At the same Price one could have Boromir and a knight of the white tower, having hugely more killing potential...

In fact it might be a tempting army list to have Boromir and let's say 2 x knight of the white tower. I know, this may sound boring, but they are insaley powerful killing monsters... Also small enough so nazguls cannot rly spend too many dice for them...

YOu said that there will be probably 2 ringwraith on foot... It means aroudn 200 points. Idk what kind of predictions could be made for that... Undying lasts for long, the budget wraith not that long on the battle field...
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 Post subject: Re: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:42 am 
Elven Warrior
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Men are weak wrote:

If you know you need a spell caster, go for it, but I'd almost consider allying in a single hero caster (Galadriel is a good choice, and much less expensive).

Lastly, in an 800 point game, I think a banner is an absolute must have.


I agree with both your statements, but we are playing with no allies (using the Throne of Skulls Army List) that's why there's Gandalf and not someone like Saruman the Wise or Galadriel. The banner unit is already accounted for in both list (on foot in the first, on horseback in the second)
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 Post subject: Re: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:27 pm 
Kinsman
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Gotcha - missed the banner, but yes - see it now.

Aren't the army lists still optional? You just don't get the bonus if you ally in a separate faction. But maybe your group has opted for single faction only, which can be fun as well.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:55 pm 
Kinsman
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The List 1 may face problems. If enemy has 2 ringwraiths, they can just SapWill from Gandalf, and then just transfix boromir always when he faces several or valuable enemies = half of your army is already sabotaged hard. Gandalf will still surely have 1 will per turn, but ensuring important spells will rely on might from now on.

And that's why the list 2 might actually be better. Nazguls usually do not use blackdart, as it is quite unstable spell due to only 1/3 chance. So, they would prefer to face enemies they can usefully transfix, such as boromir = 2/3 chance.

Also, frm this view, replacing the gandalf with bolt trhower would be wise... Just have enough crew, nazguls won't be able to sabotage it... And mordor only seldom has bows anymore, unlike old good days...
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 Post subject: Re: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:44 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Salattu wrote:
The List 1 may face problems. If enemy has 2 ringwraiths, they can just SapWill from Gandalf, and then just transfix boromir always when he faces several or valuable enemies = half of your army is already sabotaged hard. Gandalf will still surely have 1 will per turn, but ensuring important spells will rely on might from now on.

And that's why the list 2 might actually be better. Nazguls usually do not use blackdart, as it is quite unstable spell due to only 1/3 chance. So, they would prefer to face enemies they can usefully transfix, such as boromir = 2/3 chance.

Also, frm this view, replacing the gandalf with bolt trhower would be wise... Just have enough crew, nazguls won't be able to sabotage it... And mordor only seldom has bows anymore, unlike old good days...


Gandalf's cloak should repel most of the spells, but you have a point.

I haven't had much success with a Bolt Thrower. Is not very reliable, and may not even need the target. If I happen to face a monster, immobilize and compel work better.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 pts Gondor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:12 pm 
Elven Warrior
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I won with list one but man was it painful: I lost six priority rolls in a row and Gandalf did not manage to cast a single spell for the first 5 turns!
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