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 Post subject: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:16 pm 
Kinsman
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So I was thinking about attending NOVA 2018, and I think it is going to be 800 pts, so here is my proposed list. Feedback would be nice!

Warband 1 12/12
The Golden King of Abrakhân (Leader)
2 Haradrim Warrior with Bow; Spear;
4 Haradrim Warrior with Spear;
4 Watcher of Kârna with Bow;
2 Abrakhân Merchant Guard
----
Warband 2 12/12
The Knight of Umbar with Fell Beast;
2 Haradrim Warrior with Bow; Spear;
4 Haradrim Warrior with Spear;
4 Watcher of Kârna with Bow;
2 Abrakhân Merchant Guard
----
Warband 3 12/12
Dalamyr, Fleetmaster of Umbar
2 Haradrim Warrior with Bow; Spear;
4 Haradrim Warrior with Spear;
4 Watcher of Kârna with Bow;
2 Abrakhân Merchant Guard
----
Warband 4 7/12
Haradrim Taskmaster
1 Haradrim Warrior with Bow;
6 Abrakhân Merchant Guard
----
47 Models, 800 pts. 19 Bow shots, 8 Might
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:25 pm 
Kinsman
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Anyone? I know we have some Harad players here.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:43 pm 
Craftsman
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Mahud king instead of Dalamyr? Maybe some Serpent Riders or Serpent guard?

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:56 pm 
Kinsman
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polywags wrote:
Mahud king instead of Dalamyr? Maybe some Serpent Riders or Serpent guard?


Unfortunately, I don't have those models. Dalamyr + KOU + Golden King is a great combo, so that is why he is in there.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:31 pm 
Craftsman
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Probably convert 'em not too hard. Maybe a Mahud mumak rider and a mahud camel guy.?

They pop up on ebay every once and a while too.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:24 am 
Loremaster
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My thoughts.....wait till the new supplement is out. Harad will be one of the first armies changed. Pellenor fields should be the supplement. My guess is Harad, Gondor, Rohan, Easterlings, etc will be first.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:40 pm 
Kinsman
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LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
My thoughts.....wait till the new supplement is out.


I have to agree. Harad is in for a beating. It is certain to be broken up into smaller weaker pieces. Allying in to make it stronger will lose Harad it's 50% bows.

I never would have invested so much in this army if I knew it would be nerfed so badly. But that is a judgement from the "Army Bonus" early tremors. Can't assess damage until the earthquake hits.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:59 pm 
Kinsman
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Here is the thing about this list, though. The only thing I might loose is the KOU and Dalamyr. Watchers and Abrakhan will stay in the same list. Also, even though the Harad elites are underpriced, even if they were OVERPRICED, you would still take them over vanilla warriors.

That is a good idea though, I'll wait till things come out. Hope Easterlings get a buff. As it stands now, though, what do you think about this list?
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:09 pm 
Loremaster
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bruceqn wrote:
LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
My thoughts.....wait till the new supplement is out.


I have to agree. Harad is in for a beating. It is certain to be broken up into smaller weaker pieces. Allying in to make it stronger will lose Harad it's 50% bows.

I never would have invested so much in this army if I knew it would be nerfed so badly. But that is a judgement from the "Army Bonus" early tremors. Can't assess damage until the earthquake hits.



Woah youre really assuming a lot that theyre gonna be nerfed so badly. If their army bonuses are broken up.

Who knows if their army will be more balanced?

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:43 pm 
Craftsman
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Yeah I think they'll be fine. The only thing I see getting a real nerf is the corsairs. I think Harad even with the initial army bonus is still plenty strong.
I will say though, that splitting up the armies lists for Harad kinda bummed me out cause I like the look of sorta rage tag makeshift army with elements of each of their factions in it, which is a less favorable to take now.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:26 am 
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polywags wrote:
Yeah I think they'll be fine. The only thing I see getting a real nerf is the corsairs. I think Harad even with the initial army bonus is still plenty strong.
I will say though, that splitting up the armies lists for Harad kinda bummed me out cause I like the look of sorta rage tag makeshift army with elements of each of their factions in it, which is a less favorable to take now.


It kind of isnt much different at all if you think on it....

Before:
Include all factions in one list
No army bonuses

Now: Simply alley in together to have a rag tag bunch
Still no army bonuses

All you have to do is ally. Its a bit harder as you are more likely to have to take full warbands or at least close to it but at the same time you can have an army of the East with mixed troopers.

As for Corsairs.....I mean....nerf? I feel like this is worry for no reason.

What about them is nerfed. Nobody knows their profiles after June. Again....they come with NEW bonuses if you take only them. If you want a mix to maximize them game wise...you again just ally...Im confused about why the word nerf is being thrown around in this post.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:55 am 
Kinsman
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Quote:
It kind of isnt much different at all if you think on it.... just ally...Im confused about why the word nerf is being thrown around in this post.


Pre-Nerf Harad: I kept my Serpent Sting 50% bows and could use any mix (small or large numbers) of Half Trolls, Black Numenorians and/or Corsair Reavers under cheap Harad captains. I had access to S4 spears (Mahud). I had a choice between (or could use both) Nazgul leaders: a fighter and a support bow Wraith. As long as my Harad contingent was 'pure', I kept my 50% bows and could ally Shadow Lord for safety from bows.

Post-Nerf Harad: to keep my 50% bows, I settle for a painfully low Defense army, vunerable to bows. Watchers die first in front (no Shadow Lord), if I want F4, or buying Serpent Guard for the rear...but then forced to limit my Watcher numbers. I can use only Betrayer, arguably one of the weakest Wraiths, now that Rend has made his poison re-roll largely redunent on Fell Beast.
Or I ally in and now lose my 50% bows--a sore loss--and must choose between Reevers, Half Trolls or Numenorians. Each ally needs a captain, of course, and (realistically) that points cost limits me to only one ally. I must now choose between one of them or Shadow Lord.

Post Nerf Harad is a significantly weaker army...or becomes just an ally with 1/3 bows and too many stronger ally options to really choose it.

Can other Harad players cheer me up, please...? Some good news welcome.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:09 pm 
Elven Warrior
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bruceqn wrote:
I never would have invested so much in this army if I knew it would be nerfed so badly. But that is a judgement from the "Army Bonus" early tremors. Can't assess damage until the earthquake hits.


That's my problem too, dammit...

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:13 pm 
Kinsman
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Valadorn wrote:
That's my problem too, dammit...


This does not cheer me up...

I can't read the mind of the Maker, but it seems Adam wants to limit the evils of competition by forcing more thematic armies (?). A noble effort, but the earthquake survivors will just piece through the rubble to find the most competitive options left.

Looks like Mordor might survive in the largest piece. High Elves improve with merging. But the chaos of Pelennor Fields should allow lots of armies to mix and match, safely themed.

Judging only from "Army Bonus" split-ups, Harad looks doomed to death by fluffifying.

Hope I am wrong.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:58 pm 
Kinsman
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McGarnacle wrote:
Here is the thing about this list, though. The only thing I might lose is the KOU and Dalamyr. Watchers and Abrakhan will stay in the same list.


Very true. This list will largely survive the earthquake.

Just substitute Betrayer for KoU, of course, and Suledan Mounted for Dalamyr...plus half a dozen Serpent Riders for diversity? (easy to convert...)

Or spam your numbers with a Chieften (instead of Suledan) plus 6 Abrakham and 6 Harad spears. Consider upgrading Harad bows to Warriors of Karna.

You'll still die on 5+ from bows and normal strength troops...on 4+ from Uruks. Hurls will huuuurt....but no more than Defense 5 troops, anyway.

Your Fight Value will match most armies...but larger numbers should make up for faster dying and winning only 50% (60% with Watchers). Too bad about that crappy spellcaster.

This list should hold its own against equally nerfed armies.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:14 pm 
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Harad will still be strong. You will have to make choices, put you can still run a line of watchers or Abrakhan guards to lay waste the realm of Gondor! Those cowardly pirates and scheming Black Numenoreans have no place in the mighty host of the Serpent Lord!
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:37 am 
Loremaster
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bruceqn wrote:
Quote:
It kind of isnt much different at all if you think on it.... just ally...Im confused about why the word nerf is being thrown around in this post.


Pre-Nerf Harad: I kept my Serpent Sting 50% bows and could use any mix (small or large numbers) of Half Trolls, Black Numenorians and/or Corsair Reavers under cheap Harad captains. I had access to S4 spears (Mahud). I had a choice between (or could use both) Nazgul leaders: a fighter and a support bow Wraith. As long as my Harad contingent was 'pure', I kept my 50% bows and could ally Shadow Lord for safety from bows.

Post-Nerf Harad: to keep my 50% bows, I settle for a painfully low Defense army, vunerable to bows. Watchers die first in front (no Shadow Lord), if I want F4, or buying Serpent Guard for the rear...but then forced to limit my Watcher numbers. I can use only Betrayer, arguably one of the weakest Wraiths, now that Rend has made his poison re-roll largely redunent on Fell Beast.
Or I ally in and now lose my 50% bows--a sore loss--and must choose between Reevers, Half Trolls or Numenorians. Each ally needs a captain, of course, and (realistically) that points cost limits me to only one ally. I must now choose between one of them or Shadow Lord.

Post Nerf Harad is a significantly weaker army...or becomes just an ally with 1/3 bows and too many stronger ally options to really choose it.

Can other Harad players cheer me up, please...? Some good news welcome.


The noted paragraph makes me not able to take you seriously. Im sorry. Woe is me, I cant take one of the best possible combinations in the game. That list is so overpowered its not even funny. If youre good, you can still ally these armies and win games.

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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:59 pm 
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bruceqn wrote:
Quote:
It kind of isnt much different at all if you think on it.... just ally...Im confused about why the word nerf is being thrown around in this post.


Pre-Nerf Harad: I kept my Serpent Sting 50% bows and could use any mix (small or large numbers) of Half Trolls, Black Numenorians and/or Corsair Reavers under cheap Harad captains. I had access to S4 spears (Mahud). I had a choice between (or could use both) Nazgul leaders: a fighter and a support bow Wraith. As long as my Harad contingent was 'pure', I kept my 50% bows and could ally Shadow Lord for safety from bows.


Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think that is a legal list anyway. Half-trolls, Black Numenorians, Mahûd, and Corsair reavers are all part of the Harad/Umbar faction. If you take any of those warriors then you no longer qualify for the Serpent Sting bonus anyway. The entire contingent has to abide by the Serpent Sting rules to get the bonus, not just individual warbands. You are allowed to take Heroes from those different groups but none of the warriors are allowed if you want 50% bows. I play Harad myself and I have to choose between strength 4 spears and shields with Mahûd or 50% bows; I ususally choose the latter.
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 Post subject: Re: 800 Pts. Harad for NOVA 2018
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:48 pm 
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LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
Woe is me, I cant take one of the best possible combinations in the game. That list is so overpowered its not even funny. If youre good, you can still ally these armies and win games.


My point: a strong army is nerfed to an average army.

If you are good, an average army can still win games against less experienced players.

Against equally (or more) experienced players, the stronger army wins games.

If all armies are made equally average, the playing field is level. Right now. however, Mordor looks to remain a strong army...maybe others. Not Harad.

Woe is the Harad player.
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