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 Post subject: Three trolls sneeze vs heroic strike
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:56 pm 
Loremaster
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Which comes first?

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 Post subject: Re: Three trolls sneeze vs heroic strike
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:27 am 
Kinsman
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Heroic fights are called at the start of the phase, where the sneeze target is called immediately before the duel roll, so the heroic strike comes first.

The order wouldn't matter against something like bat swarms or a model wearing the ring, which only require being in base contact, but are otherwise the same effect, so it makes sense to halve the total fight value after the heroic strike in all cases for the sake of consistency anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: Three trolls sneeze vs heroic strike
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:27 am 
Loremaster
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That doesn't technically answer it though does it?

Just because you have to call the heroics before the phase to me doesn't mean that roll is before the sneeze.

I'm looking for a reference or a judgement by someone or something that has dealt with an FAQ or GW.

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 Post subject: Re: Three trolls sneeze vs heroic strike
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:48 am 
Kinsman
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It seems pretty clear to me. The Heroic Strike must be declared at the start of the phase and resolves as soon as it is declared.
Main Rules p.59 wrote:
A Hero who declares that he is using Heroic Strike adds D6 to his Fight value for the duration of the Fight phase.

The Hero adds D6 when he declares. Even if that weren't the case Heroic Strike specifies that
Main Rules p.59 wrote:
"this bonus is applied before other effects are taken into account".
So, apply the +d6 first, then halve.
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 Post subject: Re: Three trolls sneeze vs heroic strike
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:37 am 
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That makes sense the second quote. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Three trolls sneeze vs heroic strike
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Also worth mentioning that for 40K and WHFB/AoS, GW have said in situations where multiple effects should happen simultaneously, the order can be chosen by the player whose turn it is.

So even if it hadn't been clear, I'd say that the player with priority gets to choose the order things happen in.
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 Post subject: Re: Three trolls sneeze vs heroic strike
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:24 pm 
Ringwraith
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I haven't heard any rule for The Hobbit about a player choosing the order. The closet is that if the players disagree they should roll a dice.

I agree with Ring_of_Gyges on the order though, the Heroic Strike always applies first.
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 Post subject: Re: Three trolls sneeze vs heroic strike
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:04 pm 
Craftsman
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I also agree with Ring_of_Gyges' conclusion. It seems pretty cut and dry from the quote of the rule manual about other effects being calculated after the strike. However, I would like to say that, to my understanding, the Heroic Strike does not alter the order of fight selection like Heroic Combat. So, while it must be declared at the start of the phase it does not take effect until the player with priority choices to resolve that fight in which the Striking hero is involved. At which point the Heroic Strike you be activated and then all debuffs incurred.

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 Post subject: Re: Three trolls sneeze vs heroic strike
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:47 pm 
Elven Elder
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Unless specified, always go up then down when applying buffs and debuffs.

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 Post subject: Re: Three trolls sneeze vs heroic strike
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:01 pm 
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The New FAQ on page 4 has this to say:

Q: If a model calls a Heroic Strike, do you roll to increase their Fight value at the start of the Fight phase or at the start of the model’s Duel? (pg 59)
A: At the start of the model’s Duel.

I think the above conclusion is correct. The Heroic Strike is applied before anything else.
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