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 Post subject: Rear support
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:16 am 
Wayfarer
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Hi, for lotr sbg we have always played as a house rule that you can not give rear support to heroes as we use to think it overpowered them and for other reasons. But recently I played someone that used a back up spearman behind there heroes. So you can give rear support to a hero is what I'm asking? Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Following the official rules it is allowed to give support to heroes as well as to general warriors. Certainly the model giving support must be able to do so, i.e. it has to carry a spear or a pike or maybe can use some special rule like Chittering Hordes für goblins of goblin town.

It is even possible for a poor goblin with spear, to give spear Support to a troll or a dragon.

But it's of course no problem to use house rules when gaming with friends. Only in tournaments you will have to follow the official rules.
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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:02 pm 
Loremaster
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As you say, not allowing heroes to benefit from spear support is very much a house rule, and if all those in your community feel this works better than feel free to play it that way. As it is in no way based on the written rules however (both examples of spear support on page 69 of the rulebook even have heroes in the front rank), you will want to discuss such rules with your opponent prior to the game, and I wouldn't fault them for wanting to play in accordance to the rules (seeing as this particular case is purely based in preference rather than any reading of the rules as written or intended).
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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:22 am 
Kinsman
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werennor wrote:

It is even possible for a poor goblin with spear, to give spear Support to a troll or a dragon.


I thought the supporting model and supported model had to have the same base size? Allowing 6 goblins to tack on to a troll due to the size of the trolls base is overpowered. Besides, the goblins in the rear would not be able to reach to wound.

Otherwise, I always play that spears can support heroes.

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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:50 am 
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hi draked, this discussion about base sizes and spear support was led in this Forum already in 2015 (here in the beginner category). In the older rules the sizes did matter, but not in the current rules from The Hobbit. I'm not talking about making sense, if a goblin is standing behind a troll, holding a spear shorter than the troll's base diameter.

There is another remark in your post I want to say something about: Even if you put 6 goblins with spears behind a troll, only one of them can give support.

For models with pike there are two of them which can support another model. Just to make things clear. If you knew it already, all is fine.
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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:09 pm 
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werennor wrote:
hi draked, this discussion about base sizes and spear support was led in this Forum already in 2015 (here in the beginner category). In the older rules the sizes did matter, but not in the current rules from The Hobbit. I'm not talking about making sense, if a goblin is standing behind a troll, holding a spear shorter than the troll's base diameter.


Ah okay, I usually use the SBG rules.


werennor wrote:
There is another remark in your post I want to say something about: Even if you put 6 goblins with spears behind a troll, only one of them can give support.

For models with pike there are two of them which can support another model. Just to make things clear. If you knew it already, all is fine.


I mean multiple supporters along the edge of the supported model's base. Not stacked behind each other. Is is true in SBG and The Hobbit that a supported model can only have ONE supporting spear (+ ONE pike)? I can't put two goblins w/ spears behind one to result in 3 wound rolls?

If this is covered in the old thread you can just send me over there! Thanks for the info!

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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:36 am 
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Thanks heaps for the replies. So if base sizes doesn't matter then does that mean you can give spear support to a Calvary model or do they have to be on foot? Also can you give support to a person using a two handed weapon? Does that mean a woses warrior with a spear could back tree beard up? (Sorry I got made to ask the last one).
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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:41 am 
Ringwraith
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In the latest version of the rules base size doesn’t matter, neither does using a two-handed weapon. So yes a Woses Warrior can support Treebeard.
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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:12 am 
Loremaster
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Previous versions of the rules did indeed stipulate that only figures with an equal or smaller base size can be supported (a goblin could get spear support from a cave troll, but not the other way around). In the current rules that clause has been removed, although it wouldn't surprise me if it came back in a future edition.

A spear-armed model can only support a single friendly model at a time, and a model can only receive support from a single friendly model at a time (in any version of the rules that I'm aware of).

Worth noting all rules for this game are SBG by the way - it's a common acronym for the actual game itself (Strategy Battle Game). Different editons are generally designated as FotR/TTT/RotK (the three rulebooks coinciding with the release of each movie), the One Ring or Big Blue Book (hardcover rules used up until the Hobbit was released) and finally the most recent edition, those Hobbit rules.
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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:35 am 
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There are some old threads concerning this topic. One of them ist titled "Spear Support Changes?" and can be found on page 5 in the category "Beginners" (from 2015).

And as an additional remark, following the current rules it is not allowed any more to mix spear and pike for support. One can just use two pike warriors for double support or a single spear model for 1 additional attack, but not a spear guy together with a pike model for double support.
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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:31 pm 
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werennor wrote:
There are some old threads concerning this topic. One of them ist titled "Spear Support Changes?" and can be found on page 5 in the category "Beginners" (from 2015).

And as an additional remark, following the current rules it is not allowed any more to mix spear and pike for support. One can just use two pike warriors for double support or a single spear model for 1 additional attack, but not a spear guy together with a pike model for double support.


Pike support doesn't stack on top of a spear support?
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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Hi metalface13,

yes, indeed, that's what I wrote and meant.

I checked it in the rulebook (The Hobbit - An unexpected Journey) this evening, there is no explicit statement in the rules that a combined spear + pike support is forbidden, but on the other hand, support is described only as deliverd by one spear or by two (or one) pike to a fighting model in base contact. I checked it in internet too and found it confirmed there. And it's my experience from tournaments. So I'm really and truely sure about it, but I cannot give to you an English source as a further confirmation.

Anyway, it's interesting und unexpected to me, that spear support is a topic connected with so many questions.
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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:20 pm 
Kinsman
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werennor wrote:
Hi metalface13,

yes, indeed, that's what I wrote and meant.

I checked it in the rulebook (The Hobbit - An unexpected Journey) this evening, there is no explicit statement in the rules that a combined spear + pike support is forbidden, but on the other hand, support is described only as deliverd by one spear or by two (or one) pike to a fighting model in base contact. I checked it in internet too and found it confirmed there. And it's my experience from tournaments. So I'm really and truely sure about it, but I cannot give to you an English source as a further confirmation.

Anyway, it's interesting und unexpected to me, that spear support is a topic connected with so many questions.


I just consulted the SBG rulebook again and I'm surprised to learn that indeed only one spear can lend support at a time! I have not been playing like this, I'll have to incorporate that rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Rear support
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:06 am 
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werennor wrote:
Hi metalface13,

yes, indeed, that's what I wrote and meant.

I checked it in the rulebook (The Hobbit - An unexpected Journey) this evening, there is no explicit statement in the rules that a combined spear + pike support is forbidden, but on the other hand, support is described only as deliverd by one spear or by two (or one) pike to a fighting model in base contact. I checked it in internet too and found it confirmed there. And it's my experience from tournaments. So I'm really and truely sure about it, but I cannot give to you an English source as a further confirmation.

Anyway, it's interesting und unexpected to me, that spear support is a topic connected with so many questions.


I believe you, I've yet to play with pikes. I'd like to do a Fiefdoms army sometime so the idea of an axeman of lossarnach supporting a dol amroth knight and a men at arms with pike sounded good. Oh well. Just double up on pikemen I guess!
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