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 Post subject: I don't know how to Nazgûl
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:06 am 
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I am finishing my Uruk-hai army and I scoured ebay for a Dwarf one. But during such scouring, I found some metal orcs from the Perry and the original Nazgûls in metal and I fell in love with how well made these models are (I will acquire plastic ones and convert them to pump up numbers because the metals are very pricy).

I was wondering if an army of Nazgûls+Orc rabble is viable, but I have no idea on how to start and what are the basic strategies for the Nazgûls - never used them back then. They look menacing (duh) but fragile as well.

In an army composed by "basic" orcs, trackers, few morannons, and warg riders only, how many Nazgûls should I add, and which loadout (M/W/F)? How many cheap orc characters instead?

I prefer the "original" ones + WK, but if one has suggestion for the "named" ones, they are more than welcome!

What are the basic strategies with them? How to Nazgûl effectively?

Help!


Last edited by Orcobal on Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: I don't know how to Nazgûl
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:56 am 
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Nazgul are great! They fit into most armies, there are 2 varieties, the "vanilla" nazgul (which you refer to as the original ones) which serve as effective leaders and spell casters then there are the named nazgul which are also spell casters in their own right, but they also each have a unique set of profiles making them viable heroes.

How to load the Nazgul is up to you. Personally, I say max them out as much as you can. The most important thing to remember is that the vanilla nazgul aren't fighters. Keep them out of combat and focus on using their spells.

As far as the named nazgul go, it depends on what you want. Do you want a potent magic user? Field the undying, do you want a fighter? Field the knight of umbar or Khamul. Want an anti archery nazgul? Field the Dark Lord. The named nazgul are versatile and there are more than 9 ways you can use them (see what I did there? Because there are 9 riders?).
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 Post subject: Re: I don't know how to Nazgûl
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:23 pm 
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To me, the Nazgul are the single most powerful entity that brought me into LoTR all those years ago, and they are fantastic models in game. Like jdizzy said, you can fit the named or unnamed ones into nearly any force or army composition.

If you plan on running an army filled with cheap orcs, I'd highly recommend using The Dark Marshall. You will find his special ability incredibly useful for leading masses of troops. The Knight of Umbar is great at murdering heroes, while The Undying is, well, undying. A very good caster. My personal favorite will ALWAYS be the Witch King, because you can customize him to fit the needs of your army.

When it comes to using Nazgul, in my experience, they exist to make the lives of your opponents heroes miserable. Through heavy magic and a few special rules, they really can shut down all but the most powerful good heroes. I like pairing a Nazgul with a monster, as that creates quite a fun time when it comes to demolishing heroes. If you play at say 800+ pts, you might consider using 2 Nazgul.

They should be protected though. You will always want them to be mounted. ALWAYS. I don't care if it's a measly horse or a fell beast, they need to be mounted to be used to maximum effectiveness. Target heroes with your Sap Will and Transfix/Compel, or maybe even Drain Courage. You have plenty of options.
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 Post subject: Re: I don't know how to Nazgûl
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:58 am 
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always better mounted
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 Post subject: Re: I don't know how to Nazgûl
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:31 pm 
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To start, I will focus on the vanilla Ringwraiths - they could be less confusing for a beginner.

What did you say means that for the vanilla I should focus on buy will points over might and fate, I suppose?

I calculated that I can have 4 100 points Nazgûls, 37 orcs and 10 warg riders for a 750 points army.

Should I drop one, and max the other tree (maybe one can be the WK), adding in an orc captain? Is too many for that point level? Better more captains and more orcs, perhaps Morannons?

Which spells should I give priority to? Against which targets?

Thank you!
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 Post subject: Re: I don't know how to Nazgûl
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:30 pm 
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I don't play with Nazgul very often, but frequently play against them, so I feel like I know their tricks fairly well.

Nazgul are the ultimate disruption casters. They ruin heroes, make good forces break more easily, and generally throw a wrench into your opponent's best laid plans. However, unless riding Fell Beasts, they are support units only and are not your heavy hitters. Even 'fighty' wraiths like Khamul or the Knight of Umbar can be easily slain by one lost combat to a powerful hero. Black Dark is usually a trap, so don't let it distract you from the much more profitable transfix/compel.

Because of this, the most effective evil armies will include other heavy hitters in the force to munch through the opponent while the Ringwraiths neutralize the powerful units on the other side of the field. For this reason, I feel that Nazgul pair well with tougher evil troops, like Morannon orcs and Trolls, rather than the cheap-as-chips but oh-so-disappointing vanilla orcs.

Things to target: powerful heroes, enemy casters (wizards hate Nazgul - one channeled drain will can turn Gandalf the White into 220 points of useless), and Monsters.

Things to avoid: Powerful mounted heroes who can move 20" a turn via heroic combats (my Glorfindel on Asfaloth eats Nazgul for days if he can resist the first transfix), strength 4 troops (Defense 8 looks nice until you're surrounded by a pack of angry Khazad Guard), and Monsters (everybody loves to go wraith bowling with a good hurl, or rend on their STR 4).

I think your suggested list looks fun and themed. Few armies will be able to easily deal with 3 wraiths every turn (I have been there and it sucks), but regular orcs and warg riders lack the punch to make up the Wraiths' deficit of combat prowess. I'd take Morannons, uruks, or the odd troll to make up the difference. I think a couple of cheap wraiths can be more useful than a single tooled one because you can be casting multiple spells each turn. This is much harder to deal with overall.

Finally, consider the game-changer that is the fell beast. Monstrous cavalry are brutal, and the basic fell beast is absurdly cheap for what it brings to the table. A tooled out Witch King on fell beast is devastating on the charge and thanks to his spells is hard to counter without a cheeky Galadriel hiding behind the ranks.

Have fun!
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 Post subject: Re: I don't know how to Nazgûl
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:45 am 
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The mobility of a fell beast is unparalleled. A close second would be a horse, but should be mostly for the extra mobility rather than the charge bonus, unless absolutely necessary.
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 Post subject: Re: I don't know how to Nazgûl
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:01 pm 
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Lots of good suggestion, thank you people!

Big monsters are not possible at the moment (MAYBE a troll but in the future).

I smiled at the mention of Glorfindel - isn't exactly what happens in the book, when he appears there are 5 of them and they are like "hmmm, we cannot make it"? Ringwraiths are terror incarnate, Glorfindel scares Ringwraith!

I worked out other options, one on the cheap wraith and one on having more punch (750 points)

List 1:
6 Budget Ringwraiths (55 pt), 70 orcs. Boring perhaps, but is a swarm! Is an army to build with love and patience, I will convert and use green stuff to create a varied rabble. I am 10/18 with the metal Perry orcs so far... (alternatively, 6xringwraiths with 9 will, and 60 orcs are 750 exactly).

List 2 (more realistic and varied)
2 nazgul well pimped (110-130 perhaps more points between the two of them), one can be the WK. alternatively, 4 basic but only 2 lead a warband
24 orcs (2 warbands)
Morannon captain (he punches people.. maybe)
12 morannon
Orc captain on warg (he tries to punch people)
3 morannon (because I found the metals)
9 warg riders.

I could swap the warg riders for uruk-hais and black numenoreans, a possible troll? I will try to get as many spears as possible with the orcs (i can distribute the warband members in a more optimal way, do not worry).

The Black numenoreans intrigue me because is even more terror in a list full of it..
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 Post subject: Re: I don't know how to Nazgûl
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:49 pm 
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You're welcome!

I like your second list a lot. The Warg riders add mobility and variety, the orcs can swarm, but the added Morannons throw in some high defense, strength 4 troops that can cause a lot of damage. Consider a shaman for extra survivability, courage, and the occasional transfix.

Black Numenoreans could help by adding some fight value 4 into your army. Terror is also fun, but beware high courage elf armies! Uruk-hai could also fufil a similar role that emphasizes killing over surviving (and the metals are still available from GW to boot!).

Have fun modelling and building your force! I myself am dusting off a couple warbands of orcs at the moment and am using extra pieces from the Hunter Orc boxed sets to differentiate/update the sculpts. Happy Hobbying.
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 Post subject: Re: I don't know how to Nazgûl
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:11 pm 
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With time, I will work to an alternate one with Black Numenoreans and Uruks of Mordor. I like the BN cavalry but I have no idea if it can work.

I adore these models with ebay I will have fun modelling for a long time :)

Thank you very much.
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