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 Post subject: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:01 pm 
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Monsters and I don't get along. I don't seem to be able to defeat them. What are some tactics for taking them down (particularly trolls).

I have tried...
-immobilize (with varying degrees of success)
-Mobbing the monster (most successful, but requires a lot of my army to pull off)
-Heroic strikes (never successful as the monster heroic strikes as well and we always increase FV by the exact same amount [This is more of a dice problem])
-Archery fire (Never successful as it usually requires at least a 6+ to damage them)

Then, in failing to harm the monster I get hurled or rended to death in the subsequent fight phase. Any advice?

PS, I tried git gud and it didn't work so well.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:07 pm 
Kinsman
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jdizzy001 wrote:
Monsters and I don't get along. I don't seem to be able to defeat them. What are some tactics for taking them down (particularly trolls).

I have tried...
-immobilize (with varying degrees of success)
-Mobbing the monster (most successful, but requires a lot of my army to pull off)
-Heroic strikes (never successful as the monster heroic strikes as well and we always increase FV by the exact same amount [This is more of a dice problem])
-Archery fire (Never successful as it usually requires at least a 6+ to damage them)

Then, in failing to harm the monster I get hurled or rended to death in the subsequent fight phase. Any advice?

PS, I tried git gud and it didn't work so well.


Some forces can counter different types of monster better than others.
What's your normal force and what do you normally face?
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:23 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Magic is usually the best solution, you can neutralize a monster with a 2 or a 3 for a turn.
If your opponent makes a mistake in deploying the monster, you can use the terrain and even his own units to block it. It has a big base, so you can stall it by not giving it enough space. Granted, that does not work as good with flying monster; they cannot be stopped but they can be kept away from valued targets.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:11 am 
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First of all Stephan Bonner has a good question......


jdizzy001 wrote:
Monsters and I don't get along. I don't seem to be able to defeat them. What are some tactics for taking them down (particularly trolls).

I have tried...
-immobilize (with varying degrees of success)
-Mobbing the monster (most successful, but requires a lot of my army to pull off)
-Heroic strikes (never successful as the monster heroic strikes as well and we always increase FV by the exact same amount [This is more of a dice problem])
-Archery fire (Never successful as it usually requires at least a 6+ to damage them)

Then, in failing to harm the monster I get hurled or rended to death in the subsequent fight phase. Any advice?

PS, I tried git gud and it didn't work so well.


Immobilize-How? Most casters in the game have this on a 3+. This usually prevents them from doing too much throughout the game

Mobbing them-You better have strength four, or your guys will need 6's. Or trapping them is pretty important...


Heroic strikes-So youre constantly playing monster heroes? Thats definitely tougher....but the cheapest one in the game is around 110 points. The next has to be 140, and so on. Thats a lot of points. So depending on if they are on the softer side or larger side, you should have a lot of troops compared, or a big hero.
Immobilise + strike for your troops, is what should be happening.


Again....we need to know what army you play as.

Finally archery.....often indeed does not work. Unless they give you a free shot, or one in the way.....I rarely shoot at monsters. They usually need like 3/4 to hit them, 4 for in the way, 4 for another, and then 5-6 to wound. I get that.

How do they move/protect them until lines clash?

We need to know more.

I usually play evil with wraiths and immobilise them. If I have one wraith in my army, I usually have one with 16+ will at 700 points or higher. You can keep em in check.

Epic heroes can work, but dangerous as they rend.

More details please, and we can answer better.

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:33 am 
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The scenario in particular resulted from being pincared by cavalry on one side and a monster troll hero and two Nazgul on the other side. Radagast was pinned down panicking steeds so I wasn't devastated by a cavalry charge and the nazgul were black darting aragorn to death (he had absorbed three darts with fate and taken one wound). I charged the troll with gorn and gimli then heroic striked the troll (who also heroic striked) and the rest is rending history. This case in particular I know was my own doing. I should have charged the weakening cavalry line (radagast was devestating them). In all honesty the troll was ineffective for all but the last three turns of the game due to terrain, it just happens that those three turns resulted in massive rending from the troll which killed gimli and gorn. I was playing a three hunters plus radagast force.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:06 am 
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What were your and his regular units? All I see is heroes.

Im trying to get a grasp how you get in a situation where your heroes got so destroyed.

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:46 am 
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I was playing an all hero list. He had some orcs, the undying the black Marshall, morgal knights and the troll chief. However, raddy pinned down the knights and legolas pinned down the orcs. It was the Nazgul, the troll and Gimli/Gorn.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:56 pm 
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At first glance , I'd say you're doing it backwards. You should have Radagast immobilizing the Troll and Gimli chopping him up. Legolas should be auto hitting the Nazguls. Aragorn can then handle a few knights and some orcs on his own until Gimli is done chopping up the immobilizied Chieftain.

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:42 pm 
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On the one hand, yes, but on the other, Gimli isnt going to make a difference versus a troll who is rending. I'd rather have gorn in there since he gets more might than gimli.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:49 pm 
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But the Troll won't be rending anybody if he is immobilized by Radagast - that's the whole point. Then Gimli goes two handed and chops him up :)

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:53 pm 
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I see, that makes sense.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:50 am 
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jdizzy001 wrote:
I was playing an all hero list. He had some orcs, the undying the black Marshall, morgal knights and the troll chief. However, raddy pinned down the knights and legolas pinned down the orcs. It was the Nazgul, the troll and Gimli/Gorn.


First of all.....dude...his list is a perfect counter to yours.

All he has to do is sap Radagasts will immediately, and he outnumbers you with great combat troops.

You have soft defense heroes like Aragorn and Legolas.....Radagast is not the best wizard either.

First step is dealing with the fact you have the fellowship actually.

Legolas should be shooting wraiths or morgul knights if he can take out horses.

Aragorn should be using his might for heroic moves against the morgul knights.

And yeah Immoblise that troll.....one of your first acts of business is to make that troll bleed and stop throwing his weight around.

And finally yeah what he said earlier....get gimli in on those guys.....regardles if he is hurled too he wont die like legolas or aragorn......

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:04 am 
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Actually, troll aside, my force faired very well against his. You all must roll really high though because legolas shooting at the Nazgul was the most ineffective thing I did all game. There was also a lot of terrain on the table so archery was kind of limited, but that played to my advantage as the Nazgul couldn't draw a bead on me thanks to the many elven cloaks I sported. However, I see now that lego should have been engaging the cavalry. I know radagast isn't the best, I just wanted to use him. I see why I should have been using immobilize over panic steed, although it was awesome making the horses vanish on only a 2+. As for Gimli and the troll, my opponent was rending, not hurling Gimli's defence would not have helped. However, fighting an immobilized troll would have been much different. I appreciate the feed back, it helps visualize how I should have used the force.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:37 am 
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No no, dont worry. Legolas always is garbage for me. He routinely cant wound a Shaman and cant defeat 2-3 goblins in combat.

I just figure you take them off their horses first so they cant magic at 22 inches. You limit them a bit that way and they have to be hiding more from you.

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:33 pm 
Craftsman
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ways to counter monsters
1: magic like every one else said
2: wood elf sentials. monsters usually have low courage so singing them away is allways good. funny if you think about it.
3: surrounding them and getting the higher fight value
4: being in tight areas giving the monster a hard time getting to your troops
and 5: bring a bigger monster treebeard is a great good monster and has a decent cost as well
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting monsters
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:41 pm 
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Making movement difficult for the monster, like others have suggested, is the first step.

The thing with fighting against more than one monster at a time (or any threat really) is that you need to prioritize. If you're spreading your resources around against my two Nazgul and one Troll, I'm happy because I know you won't hurt any of them. Focus on one at a time, pool all your big hitters together to take that one out. Move on to the next.

Ringwraiths are scared of Legolas. Target the one with less Fate (if any) first, auto-hit, might if you have to, if nothing else you've stripped its fate and will have an easier time killing it.

The Troll is a two-turn job. Immobilize, surround, make sure Gimli and Aragorn are in combat. Gimli goes two-handed. Dead Troll. You just need to maneuver yourself in a way that your opponent's other baddies don't interfere when you're trying to take something out.
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