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 Post subject: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:27 am 
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There's a few topics about specific items but this is a nice full summary.

So what are everyone's opinions....What do you like? What do you dislike? Any profiles you can't wait to use? Any you feel are over or under powered?

I love that there is so much different about Azogs Hunters and Legions but I honestly feel like the books profiles has a heavy emphasis on evil. Personally I enjoy this. I know some people will not.

Tell me your thoughts guys. I'm happy to see Bolg and Azog cheaper. They were over costed before. Can't wait to try some of those trolls.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:47 am 
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Is the book out, or still on pre order?
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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:13 am 
Elven Warrior
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I haven't seen it, only heard about it
I like the survivor of laketown synergy; they basically have one big hero and many buffer heroes, it's an army that works more with combination than with single heroics.
I like the dwarves but, as strong as they are, I don't think that they will be very effective.
Then comes evil...oh boy. I don't even see the point of playing for the good side.
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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:18 pm 
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It's out already. And Dikey that's funny. Evil is pretty powerful sure but I'm surprised you think there's no point in fighting for good.

The Iron Hills army is incredible. They have good options big hero ranged attacks that are good high defense cavalry and manageable points.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:38 am 
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Iron hills are hellish to deal with when you have a s3 army

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:52 am 
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LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
It's out already. And Dikey that's funny. Evil is pretty powerful sure but I'm surprised you think there's no point in fighting for good.

The Iron Hills army is incredible. They have good options big hero ranged attacks that are good high defense cavalry and manageable points.

Yeah, mine is definitely an overstatement, those dwarves are cool and the iron hills bonus when deploying can give a massive Headstart
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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:45 pm 
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Da Krimson Barun wrote:
Iron hills are hellish to deal with when you have a s3 army



Have you played them personally?

I mean with that defense I believe you absolutely just anxious to hear actual experience.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:15 am 
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I am really bummed about the changes for Mirkwood. It feel bad from an army building stand point to miss out two great heroes, Megolas, and the magic Thranduil. I really like the thematics of the crown, even though he never casts a natures wrath he clearly has some illusionary magic like the glamour he has to cover his dragon scars. I was really hoping he was going to keep the aura of dismay at least but no he's exactly like Tauriel. It just feels really lazy from a game design perspective to give two heroes in the same list the same rules especially when there aren't a ton of options there. ESPECIALLY, considering Lake town just got like 5-6-7? New heroes all with special rules. Its a lot less fun to list build and play honestly if two of your biggest models are practically the same :/
I didn't like the Megolas profile that much but I hate how strong everything else now. Like he didn't feel overpowered when compared to say champ Dwalin on a goat or Dain on his pig or Azog or Bolg. I was really hoping to see him get another attack at least if you buy Orcrist or something like that.
It also sucks that their army bonus is what they already had with bowlimit for the rangers, an over costed and largely irrelevant model when the dwarves, who are already suuuper strong get another rule in addition to the great profiles. The extra cost of the mirkwood warriors and upgrade to heavy armor doesn't feel great either. It was cool to have more of a difference between them and the other elves but now they're just high elves which isn't really very interesting from a game play point of view or from a thematic one. I would imagine the Galadhrim would be closer to to the high elves then the Mirkwood elves would be. Stag is cool though.

The dwarves are really cool, as much as I thought the bofa are a garbage fire of a movie for some reason the really Warhammer or WoW style dwarves really cool. With the exception of the balista, that's goofy as hell.

The evil stuff all seems cool, especially the bats and the goblins. I have a hard time getting excited about the various trolls with stuff. They just made me check out while watching the movie and they seem really powerful, I don't imagine I'd have a lot of fun watching a Rohan army or Boromir leading an awesome Minas Tirith force get tossed like around chumps by these goofy ass trolls.

I think that in general is my big concern with all of the new stuff is how it matches up against the LOTR era armies. I really like, in general, the direction they're taking in how they're writing the profiles and building armies I think they will all be really fun to play, maybe with the exception of Mirkwood, which will be a little less fun, I just hope that they rework the older range and older armies lists and bring them in line with the new stuff. Cause as hard as it was to watch Aragorn get sneezed on by a troll and put in a sack I don't think I don't think I'd have a lot of fun watching him get smashed by a troll, run over by a chariot or beaten one on one by CGI clown fest that is Azog and Bolg.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:06 am 
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Ouch man lotta hate for the new movies.

Well couple things. I understand your whole comparison of new vs old stuff. In terms of my understanding I thought that the new lord of the Rings book is coming out next summer and I'm under the impression it's going to replace old rules. So there will be growing pains, but it probably will pass.

As for Mirkwood yeah sorry man. I like the other thranduil profile. Super legolas I didn't love but I used him time to time. I think they made Thranduil awesome though. That elk made him some much more powerful. I shoukd say that and the strength 5 charge.

I feel your anti troll power sentiment too. Unfortunately for some people I play I love trolls and if there is one super powered part of this book I think it's the trolls and ogres. They're ridiculous.

Lake town did get a huge boost and the Iron Hills Dwarves are great. I fear the quality of some of these rules are for sales as opposed to models having profiles they do. That being said I'm just happy they lowered the cost of Bolg and Azog. I used them before and they're just too pricey. My excitement mai my focused on Azogs Hunters for this book. Thanks for your honest thoughts man.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:02 am 
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Yeah who knows. If sales keep up they may go back and revist the older editions. I certainly hope so. The elk is definitely cool, although again, I dunno if that rule makes the most sense? Its good though.

And yes, fair enough. A lot of the reaction online is all positive for the most ridiculous stuff but those people probably liked the movies too :p And more power to them. If they enjoy it and it gets more people to play its for the best. I just won't buying any of the silly stuff and i don't play enough games for me to likely see any of it either :D
Just wish they gave Mirkwood the same attention as the other armies and who knows about the trolls. They seemed reasonably expensive? As long as they aren't too cheap and balanced points wise against the rest of the range its just irksome as opposed to game breaking but who knows. Games always go through big ups and downs when new material comes out and it will take a while for everything to shake out. Hopefully it doesn't take another 3 years or however long it was for a new book!

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:50 am 
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Well... I just got ahold of the book (courtesy of old Saint Nick) and I have to say I am severely disappointed by the contents, in terms of both stats and presentation. If you have the book look at the terrain they used for the pictures and tell me what it is and where you've seen it before. I marked pieces from the Shadow and Flame sourcebook and some customized ruins of middle earth from the War of the Ring book. And if it wasn't reused is was just generic prefab kits, only one of which was new anyway. Heck, the GBHL had a Dol Guldur all done and dusted for months why didn't GW just borrow that?!

Ba, I know they are on a tight bugged and doing the best with what they have, and you can say I'm being ungrateful for this if you like, but it will be a cold day in the upper circles of hell before I call table scraps a full course meal, no matter how hungry I might be.

And you know what? I don't even feel like playing against these new models. Two thirds of the heroes are under coasted. Everything is bloated with special rules and high stats lines. Every C-list nobody has free might this or rerole that or plus one to wound which used be reserved for the cream of the crop. Nothing has been reconciled with the LotR line, Bulg and Azog are still better than Aragorn and Imrahil.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:44 am 
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Yeah I kinda of have been having that sinking suspicion for a while, ever since I got a peak at the dwarves,(think about them compared to the fellowship) and while I liked more mechanics, I find that kind of thing fun and if the rules are written well it feels more thematic as well, but the discrepency between the ranges seems to be growing. I really, really hope the revist to the older armies and profiles and adjust them. I actually think a lot of the power creep in the game is a direct result of the ridiculousness of the movies. I actually feel like GW and the ME team has done a pretty faithful representation of the feel of the movies that just, in a lot of ways, doesnt feel like LOTR to me in a lot of ways.

A lot of the earlier editions of the LOTR supplements were pretty whacky too though and I think after a couple editions they hammered out a pretty good balance and I am still pretty hopeful that we'll see something along those lines with the hobbit stuff. If that ends up being just buffing all the LOTR stuff to bring it in line then so be it. I like LOTR, and middle earth enough to buy some toys even if they're a little silly to start with.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:22 pm 
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I’ll agree that there is a LOT of special rules bloat. The free might, heroics etc. should still be reserved for the cream of the crop. But overall, I am really happy with this book. Look at it this way. They had to make a game that’s faithful to the movie and they’ve done that. Next summer we’ll be getting a new edition of the game and they’ll have a chance to balance the ranges and profiles. I sincerely hope they don’t do it by power creeping all the LOTR profiles, but either way, next summer should fix most of the problems that arise. They should have some feedback by then of what’s working and not working and what unexpected things have happened with the new profiles.

For example. I really dislike the new bats. A lot of shenanigans can happen and they are going to be must-have models. But at 25 pts, I doubt most forces will have more than 4 of them. I would prefer them to be a swarm type unit rather than bombers – but they are faithful to the movie.

I was really expecting the troll brute to be the mightiest unit ever made, but was pleasantly surprised. Basically just a troll with a trample attack. The standard trolls are the mightiest trolls in the game though. I’d like to see them nerfed to the level of a Mordor troll. It would also really help if the game took hurl away from trolls – but that’s a next summer thing.
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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:47 am 
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Wan Shi Tong wrote:
And you know what? I don't even feel like playing against these new models. Two thirds of the heroes are under coasted. Everything is bloated with special rules and high stats lines. Every C-list nobody has free might this or rerole that or plus one to wound which used be reserved for the cream of the crop. Nothing has been reconciled with the LotR line, Bulg and Azog are still better than Aragorn and Imrahil.


^ I would agree with this.
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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:03 am 
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Michaelc wrote:
Wan Shi Tong wrote:
And you know what? I don't even feel like playing against these new models. Two thirds of the heroes are under coasted. Everything is bloated with special rules and high stats lines. Every C-list nobody has free might this or rerole that or plus one to wound which used be reserved for the cream of the crop. Nothing has been reconciled with the LotR line, Bulg and Azog are still better than Aragorn and Imrahil.


^ I would agree with this.


Seconded.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:00 am 
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So nothing was nerfed.... I haven;t gotten the book yet.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:04 am 
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Commissariat wrote:
So nothing was nerfed.... I haven;t gotten the book yet.



They nerfed Legolas and Alfrid.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:50 am 
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Laketown Survivors got an amazing boost, though. Plus, it Seems that Gandalf the grey can lead them now.
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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:01 pm 
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Yeah, from the Warhammer Community thing: Laketown can take Bilbo and Gandalf as faction-heroes.

It is interesting that they only nerfed Legolas and Alfrid and didn't make all the rest of the profiles in line with the LOTR range in both stat-line and feel (special rules). Then again, everyone was coming into this with super high expectations and hyped like crazy.

Maybe their reason is something like, if you used hobbit movie units with the LOTR range then the hobbit units are slightly better because they have "been around longer" if you tried to justify why they are even fighting in the first place. I suppose I am not really all that surprised after I come to think about it.

At least Alfrid is reigned in.

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 Post subject: Re: There and Back Again New Book discussion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:07 pm 
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Commissariat wrote:
So nothing was nerfed.... I haven;t gotten the book yet.


Nope. In fact Azog and Bolg are better than ever. Both have been significantly reduced in points.
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