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 Post subject: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:19 am 
Wayfarer
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Hey all, new to the game, trying to find a force that fits what I like while still being competitive. My favorite characters are definitely the Ringwraiths, but I really like the"generic" type. And I don't love the fell east. So I guess my question is, can you still make a competitive Mordor army including one or two budget wraiths on horses? If you have a sample list that would be rad :)
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:07 am 
Kinsman
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Angmarred wrote:
Hey all, new to the game, trying to find a force that fits what I like while still being competitive. My favorite characters are definitely the Ringwraiths, but I really like the"generic" type. And I don't love the fell east. So I guess my question is, can you still make a competitive Mordor army including one or two budget wraiths on horses? If you have a sample list that would be rad :)


They could work if you have something to kill a Transfixed hero. Troll Chieftan, Shagrat War Leader or something like that. Or just a bunch of orcs.
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:37 am 
Craftsman
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Hey @Angmarred

Budget wraiths can definitely work for you. You could field 2 of them on foot, add on a might point, a fate point, and a couple extras will for each. Join them up with a Troll Chieftain AND Shagrat War Leader and then you've still got plenty of points leftover - enough to field 48 orcs with shields, giving you 4 full war bands - all at 700 pts !

Those two wraiths, with their 18 combined will gives you a lot of potential transfixes to use - Give it a shot and see how you get on ! :)

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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:22 am 
Loremaster
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Budget wraiths are magic users, not fighters, so you would use them just as you would use any other magic-user. IE Gandalf. Gandalf (on foot or mounted) is not a melee fighter. He has to be supported with someone who can fight. So, as mentioned above, use the wraiths to immobilize people then finish off the immobilized mini with a warrior type.

We don't see many budget wraiths used anymore due to the special rules associated with the named wraiths. Names and special rules aside, a budget wraith is still a potent villain.
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:07 am 
Loremaster
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As others mentioned above, unnamed wraiths still have the scary magic that makes them fantastic to begin with (at better casting values than some named ones). When taking one with full M/W/F, you are somewhat wasting your points as a named Nazgûl provides much better value at that stage, but two cheaper ones are absolutely not a bad choice - you can transfix two targets a turn, sap will and transfix immediately or simply be in two places at once. If you choose an unnamed wraith with limited stats, you would in fact not want it to be on a Fellbeast - they won't survive long enough to make good use of it. Horses are good though, for the extra mobility to dart in and out of casting range.
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback guys. Lists are starting to form. How much better is a troll chief than a regular troll as the heavy hitter? I can get a troll and one of the 3 might captains for almost the same cost and that looks cooler to me. Is it that much less effective?
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:09 pm 
Kinsman
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Budget wraiths are great.

They're only marginally more expensive than an Orc Captain, they're super cheap.

They're C6, so their stand fast tests are fantastic.

They're hugely versatile. Compel a banner bearer away from the fight or into the arms of your troops. Transfix an Ent. Drain Courage Denethor and watch him go berserk. Harbinger of Evil and Drain Courage the enemy captains and watch the enemy dissolve once they break.

Magic doesn't care about in the way rolls, so keep them safe behind a mob of orcs and they can flit about harassing with magic all game long.
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:42 pm 
Kinsman
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I'd echo what others said. They're hugely versatile at relatively low cost.

Just be sure that you know what their role is in your army list. Without the Fell Beasts they're not combat heroes, so don't expect them to be. With the Fell Beasts they can be both, but without them you want to keep them out of heavy combat. They're excellent at neutralizing the impact of enemy heroes (either combat or spell casters)
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:27 am 
Craftsman
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Angmarred wrote:
Thanks for the feedback guys. Lists are starting to form. How much better is a troll chief than a regular troll as the heavy hitter? I can get a troll and one of the 3 might captains for almost the same cost and that looks cooler to me. Is it that much less effective?


having a monster with might and fate makes them really scary to fight and makes your opponents think really had on how to deal with one. also the mordor troll chief has the higher defence as well.
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:37 am 
Kinsman
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This talk of budget wraiths has 1 odd thing... People talk of their standfast... Even though they have like 7-8 will... Which means that they cannot make that many spells until banishing?
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:22 am 
Craftsman
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Salattu wrote:
This talk of budget wraiths has 1 odd thing... People talk of their standfast... Even though they have like 7-8 will... Which means that they cannot make that many spells until banishing?


you can make them 85 pts each with 1 might 1 fate and 4 extra will that puts them at 11 will so they are still bugdeted wraiths that are for spell casting. so they can cast a fair bit.
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:47 am 
Loremaster
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Just a trade-off you'll have to make during any game - how close to breaking is either force, how are you doing for victory conditions, what enemy threats are still alive, do you have a secure Fury or other dependable Stand Fast on the table: many factors will decide whether your are better off spending the last Will on your Nazgûl to attempt a spell, or leave him on 1 to keep around for his Courage.
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 Post subject: Re: How viable are generic Ringwraiths without Fellbeasts
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:12 pm 
Elven Warrior
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I like a generic ringwraith on horse to support a combat hero or even a named wraith less skilled in the art of sorcery. However, I think that a depowered witchking is a better option, because I'd give a ringwraith at least 10 will point anyway and the king comes with Your Staff is broken.
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