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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:19 am 
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jpchewy01 wrote:
Please clarify why Evil people cannot use Evil spells.


Evil people CAN use evil spells.

An Uruk-hai Shaman has the spells of Ruin.

Quote:
The Spells of Ruin are spells of destruction, of wild magical energy shaped and discharged to cause maximum damage. Creatures of good heart avoid using such power, but evil beings revel in the harm it can cause.



A Mordor Orc Shaman has the Spells of Darkness.

Quote:
The Spells of Darkness are synonymous with evil, with the smothering of hope and the slaughter of innocence. There is no blacker magic in all of Middle-earth.


An Angmar Orc Shaman has the Spells of Dismay.

Quote:
The Spells of Dismay attack the enemy's will to live, sapping their strength and valour in equal measure. Evil creatures make wide use of such magical powers, whilst beings of good heart do so only as a last resort.


Those 'beings of good heart' are Saruman the White, Gandalf (in his various guises), Galadriel, The White Council, and the Council of Wizardry.

The reason that Saruman the White Hand cannot use the Spells of Dismay, is because he is not Saruman the White. They are two separate profiles that represent Saruman at different times during the War of the Ring.

I.E - Saruman the White is when he is a member of the White Council, before he openly begins searching for the One Ring. He has already secretly started though, hence the Spells of Dismay.

Saruman the White Hand is after his true intentions have been revealed. Consider that at this point, he has his Uruk-hai army, and is openly waging war, rather than using his previous attempts at subterfuge.

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:58 pm 
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Hi Guys,
I am new at your forum as a registered one but I was a visitor here before. I found that topic and I found it really helpful in case of playing WotR in the close future. I am from Poland so I'd like to post here some of the cases that me and my friends find while reading the WotR rulerbook. In case that they were mantioned before don't bother to anwser :) I hope that my english will be communicative and everyone will understand me. In any case I will try my best :)


The first one is that some of the spells don't have the time period of time in which they are acctive e.g. like the Dark Fury or Pall of Night. The first one give us rerolling the 1s and 2s when rolling to hit, and the second stop the formations from charing(also adding the worst shooting value). Because they don't have the time of staying in game written they are just to powerful. In a case of Pall of Night there is a counterspell but still it can to easy stop many of the many units from play.

The another one of my questions is about the natural 1 on D6. In most of the GW games rolling the one means failing to hit but there isn't any information about it in the WotR ruler book. Does it mean thet the company included Gil Galad, Aragorn and Elendil(costs many post but still possible to field) always hit :?:

Next question is about the "Overlord" rule. Here are two doubts. The first one is that doeas the company that want to use the Ovelord Might has to hace Might points of its own. The rules means thet "can use the Ovelord Might rather then their own" which is suggesting that it has to have, but on the other hand in one of the GW website articles about the WotR we can find the information that Saruman can "borrow" his Might points to the Berseker company that doesn't have Might points on its own.
The second point is about the equivalence of the Heroic and Epic actions. Can another hero use the Overlord Might to perform epic actions. I don't so, but the rulerbook doesn't give us clear anwser. The overlord rules states that we can perform Heroic Actions, but the Epic action's section states that the epic actions are treated in the same way as the heroic ones.

That all that I can remind in that moment, but of course I will update it when I'll find sth new.
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:53 pm 
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Good point about magic, it doesn't say either way how lonf some spells last, I just assumed all spells lasted for the duration of the turn, and as you say, some are to strong if they do and for that reason I stick to my original instinct.

There is not rule that say's a one is alway's a miss, whether they forgot to put it in, I don't know. Either way if somebody decides to field Aragorn and Elendil etc to get an uatomaatic hit, deserve an automatic hit on the nose himself :p

Overlord? No idea, rules are not clear.
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:10 pm 
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hithero wrote:
Good point about magic, it doesn't say either way how lonf some spells last, I just assumed all spells lasted for the duration of the turn, and as you say, some are to strong if they do and for that reason I stick to my original instinct.


Yeah, but still it won't be to difficult to find such a players who won't agree with you, and unfortunatly in a source(kill me but I hate idioms in english and I never know if I use them in the correct way :) ) of rulerbook they will be right. And that's why that should be specify in the future FAQ.

hithero wrote:
There is not rule that say's a one is alway's a miss, whether they forgot to put it in, I don't know. Either way if somebody decides to field Aragorn and Elendil etc to get an uatomaatic hit, deserve an automatic hit on the nose himself :p


That a good point, but I'am prety sure that someday I will find myself in a play with such a player.
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:28 pm 
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Regarding Spells -


It would seem that, unless countered or the description states otherwise, spells last for the remainder of the game.

For example, Spells of Command, Aura of Blinding light - 'lasts until the end of the turn.'

Spells of Ruin - Shatter Shields - 'receives no Defence bonus for their shields for the remainder of the turn... On a roll of 6,... no benefit for their sheilds for the rest of the game.'


Also, read the Epic Heroes and Spell Interaction box out on pg. 72. It would suggest that spells remain in play.




Regarding 1+ Shoot values.


Two things suggest that a roll is required.

1. Box out on pg 40 -

Quote:
Automatic Hits - Some attacks are so deadly that they do not require a roll To Hit, but instead automatically cause damage. An attack that does automatic hits will always be successful - there is no need to roll.


If a 1+ Shoot value did not require a roll, it would be written as 'Auto'.

2. In WD, Mat Ward talks about not liking guaranteed things in gaming, hence the inclusion of the random charge distance. That would suggest that, as with other GW games, a To Hit roll of 1 is an automatic failure.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:18 pm 
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hithero wrote:
. Either way if somebody decides to field Aragorn and Elendil etc to get an uatomaatic hit, deserve an automatic hit on the nose himself :p.


Well Gil-Galad and Elendil would be themeable, giving a +4 (if it stacks of which I'm not sure)

A thing I was wondering: scenario Disaster at the Gladden Fields
"No epic heroes or legendary formations may be fielded"
followed by it's perfectly legitable to draft in some darker creatures like Black Numenoreans or The Castellans of Dol Guldur to represent the leaders of the warband :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Another few questions about my army(Mordor)

The Dark Marshal got a special rule "Rule through Fear".
Suppose that we have a formation of orcs charged by sth with the terror rule. They fail theit courage test and have their fight value reduced to 0. Can I still rise it by "borrowing" the Dark Marshal's :?:
And also what if the hero in formation which is "borrowing" fight value from Dark Marshal fight in a herois duel. Is he using his fight value or the Marshal's one :?:
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:07 am 
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Kevin from Mitril wrote:
Another few questions about my army(Mordor)

The Dark Marshal got a special rule "Rule through Fear".
Suppose that we have a formation of orcs charged by sth with the terror rule. They fail theit courage test and have their fight value reduced to 0. Can I still rise it by "borrowing" the Dark Marshal's :?:
And also what if the hero in formation which is "borrowing" fight value from Dark Marshal fight in a herois duel. Is he using his fight value or the Marshal's one :?:


Hi, you should really start a new thread for your rules questions as this is a thread for errors, anyway...

A Company alway's uses the heroes Fight, so their fight becomes say 5 instead of 3. Now, if the company has its Fight reduced, then its Fight value is still reduced regardless of what it started at whether it be 5 or 3.

I don't know the answer to the second question and it is an important one as it has reprecussions on Hero-monsters, that would make them extremely vulnerable to Heroic Duels - they would alway's lose! So I'd say that Heroic Duels are not effected by Fight loss unless specifically specified in the rules.

Re-read the question, my general answer still stands but additionally, a hero does not use another heroes Fight value.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:40 am 
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ehya just noticed something though i dont know if its an error or not but sauron does not have the special rule overlord yet the rule is called OVERLORD and sauron is specificly mentioned in the rules description
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:21 am 
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hithero wrote:
A Company alway's uses the heroes Fight, so their fight becomes say 5 instead of 3. Now, if the company has its Fight reduced, then its Fight value is still reduced regardless of what it started at whether it be 5 or 3.


I know, that I should start a new tread, but that is the last one, so bear with me :wink:
But look, my fight is reduced in the charge phase cause I have to pass(or not) the courage test immediatly after being charged by "terrorist". And the Marshal's special rule is used at the beginning of the fight phase. Is it still like you said :?:
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:20 pm 
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In that case, I'd say the Marshall ability would counter the Terror effect as his ability was the last one used.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:34 pm 
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In the big battle report near the back of the book it says that citadel guard are rare,but in the army list part it says they are common

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 Post subject: Mighty Blow special rule
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:02 am 
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Both Boromir (p 103) and Lurtz (p 178) have the Mighty Blow special rule. however, in the description for Boromir's Mighty Blow, it says the special ability only counts for the hits he makes, whilst for Lurtz it says it counts for his company.

anyone think this is a typo for Boromir? shouldn't the rule count for his whole company?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:37 pm 
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just a small typo, although it doesn't really change the implication, you can guess the missing word is 'phase'

Page 198. Special Rule: 'The crew'.

'the crew of the mumak may shoot in the shoot.'

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:30 pm 
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gaarew wrote:
The reason that Saruman the White Hand cannot use the Spells of Dismay, is because he is not Saruman the White. They are two separate profiles that represent Saruman at different times during the War of the Ring.

I.E - Saruman the White is when he is a member of the White Council, before he openly begins searching for the One Ring. He has already secretly started though, hence the Spells of Dismay.

Saruman the White Hand is after his true intentions have been revealed. Consider that at this point, he has his Uruk-hai army, and is openly waging war, rather than using his previous attempts at subterfuge.


I don't agree with that line of thought in regards to what spells he should have lost/kept during that transition.
I think it stands to reason that GW made a typo, writing Command instead of Dismay on Saruman the White Hand, because:
1) Gandalf and Radagast, along with plenty of elves (Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond and Cirdan), knows all the Spells of Command.
Saruman the White was a wizard of good faction and knew all the Spells of Command (along with Dismay and Ruin)
No evil wizards know any Spells of Command (apart from Saruman).

2) Plenty of evil wizards know Spells of Dismay, Sauron and Ringwraiths among others, and it doesn't get any more evil than those...
Only 3 good faction wizards know them, and Saruman the White being one (Gandalf and Galadriel the others, although I may have missed someone)

Going from Good to Evil, why would Saruman not loose the "Good" spells of Command instead of the "Evil" spells of Dismay. I can't really see him using magic such as "Blessing of the Valar" or "Instil Valour", let alone have them instead of "Visions of Woe" or "Terrifying Aura".

I mean I'd love to be able to bring back Berserkers with "Blessing of the Valar", but it just doesn't feel right.
In the SBG, as far as I can tell, he seems a lot closer to Dismay (with Terrifying Aura + Transfix (basically the same Immobolise as in the SBG, not the watered down version in spells of Command)).

Imo we should all be playing with Saruman the White Hand as Ruin+Dismay. :roll:
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:46 am 
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Good news for all the War of the rings players:
I talked yesterday with Alesio Cavatore and he told me that Games Workshop had finished a FAQ for War of the ring and that i will be soon on their website.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:19 pm 
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I recall a similar statement given by Allesio years ago about other FAQs as well.

Regardless of my cynicism, I hope its true. This sucker is going to need a few more pages than what other GW games typically get. A section for rules and a section for the armies....
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Much needed, thanks Arabog.

James

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:28 pm 
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Excellent news, Arabog! Have one on me!

**flips a coin to Arabog**

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:39 pm 
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Good news indeed! 8)

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