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 Post subject: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:21 pm 
Kinsman
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Hi guys.
I'm working upon the project of creating a complete War of The Rings army list for Silmarillion first age battles.
This means that it will touch troops, monsters and heroes, while basic game rules will be unchanged.

The plan of the armies is the following:

1. Noldor Elves
2. Teleri elves
3. The Houses of Mankind
4. The Dwarven Kindoms
5. The Forgotten Realms
6. Morgoth Armies
7. Gorthaur Hosts
8. The Balrog Hosts
9. The Great Worm Swarm
10. TheDark Marauders

Each of these armies will have a general list of troops, and a list of specific of kingdoms/hosts:
- the general army list will describe all of the common and rare formations;
- the specific kindoms will describe legendary formations and heroes only restricted for them, and special rules to be applied to the general army list.

The kingdoms/hosts should be as follows:

1. Noldor Elves (High Kings, House of Feanor, Gondolin, and Nargothrond)
2. Teleri elves (Falas, Doriath, and Ossiriand)
3. The Houses of Mankind (Beor, Hador, Haleth, and Bòr)
4. The Dwarven Kindoms (Nogrod, Belegost, Moria, and Amon Rudh)
5. The Forgotten Realms (Avari, Ents, Eagles, and Arcane Powers)
6. Morgoth Armies (Utumno, and Angband)
7. Gorthaur Hosts (Tol in Gauroth, and The Beleriand Affair)
8. The Balrog Hosts (Utumno Balrogs, and Angband Balrogs)
9. The Great Worm Swarm (The Uruloki Swarm, and The Winged Storm)
10. The Dark Marauders (spiders and other horrors)



Here follows a short summing-up of my work until now:


Silmarillion Beleriand Armies - Free Peoples

1 - NOLDOR ELVES

1.1 UNITS COMMON TO ALL LISTS

High Elf Knights (heavy cavalry with lances)
High Elf Cavalry (medium cavalry with throwing weapons)
Wolfhounds (hounds for hunting wargs)
High Elf Armigers (spears)
High Elf Heavy Infantry (spears)
High Elf Archers (longbows)
High Elf Artillery (trebuchet)
High Elf Heavy Train (for moving trebuchet)

1.2 The High Kings of the Noldor

UNIQUE UNITS

Ard-Galen Raiders (ambusher cavalry with Ereinion)
Serech Rangers (ambusher archers with Egnor)
Eithel Sirion Batteries (trebuchet with Gildor Inglorion)

Fingolfin
Fingon
Ereinion
Epic Hero
Gildor Inglorion
Egnor
Argon

1.3 The House of Fëanor

UNIQUE UNITS

Silmaril Knights (heavy cavalry with lances and Celegorm)
The Horse of the Gap (heavy cavalry with spears and Maglor)
Himling Guards (extra-heavy infantry with 2hcw and Amrod)
Aglon Rangers (archer ambushers with Amras)

Fëanor
Maëdhros
Caranthir
Maglor
Curufin
Celegorm
Amrod
Amras


2.4 Gondolin Kingdom

This Realm cannot be used as Allied and cannot use Allies (exception: Great Eagles, Tuor)

The House Phalanx (extra-heavy pikemen)

UNIQUE UNITS

The Wardens of the Six Gates (heavy archers-spearmen with Elemmakil)
The Wardens of the Great Gate (extra-heavy cavalry/infantry with Ecthelion)
The Royal Tower's Talons (balista with Egalmoth )

Echtelion of the Fountain
Glorfindel
Turgon
Idril Celebrindal
Maeglin
Galdor
Rog
Elemmakil
Egalmoth
Rùmil
Voronwë
Salgant


1.5 The Nargothrond Kingdom

UNIQUE UNITS

Rodothlim Guards (heavy cavalry with lances and Gwindor)
Dorthonion Guards (heavy infantry with spears and Aegnor)
Aeluin Rangers (ambusher archers with Gelmir)
Ladros Rangers (ambusher spearmen/archers with Angrod)

Finrod Felagund
Orodreth
Arminas
Finduilas
Gwindor
Aegnor
Angrod
Single model
Edrahil
Gelmir


2 - TELERI ELVES

2.1 UNITS COMMON TO ALL LISTS

Teleri Elf Cavalry (medium cavalry)
Giant Seagulls (birds)
Teleri Elf Medium Infantry
Teleri Elf Rangers (2hcw/archer ambushers)
Teleri Elf Archers (longbows)
Teleri Elf Artillery (balista)
Teleri Elf Light Train (to move balistas)


2.2 Doriath Kingdom

This Realm cannot be used as Allied and cannot use Allies (exceptions: Ossiriand Elves, Tùrin, Beren).

UNIQUE UNITS

The Hunters (2hcw/archer ambushers with Mablung)
The Knights of the Sword (heavy cavalry with Elmo)
Guards of Menegroth Court (2hcw/archers with Galadhon)
The March Wardens (2hcw/archer ambushers with Beleg)

Melian
Luthien Tinuviel
Elu Thingol
Beleg Cùthalion
Mablung the Hunter
Daeron
Elmo
Galadhon
Saeros
Galathil


2.3 The Falas League

Teleri Elf Marines (2hcw/archer medium infantry)

UNIQUE UNITS

Eglarest Marines (heavy cavalry/infantry with Erellont)
Brithombar Guards (heavy infantry/archers with Aerandir)
Androth Outhlaws (2hcw/archer ambushers with Tuor)
Balar Coastal Defence (trebuchet with Falathar)

Ëarendil
Cirdan
Elwing
Aerandir
Erellont
Annael
Falathar
Ilfrin Littleheart


2.4 Ossiriand Elves

Teleri Light Elf Cavalry (archers)

UNIT SPECIAL RULES

Woods specialization
Artillery not allowed.


UNIQUE UNITS

Sarn Athrad Guardians (ambusher spearmen/archers with Beren)
Amon Ereb Watch (2hcw/longbow light infantry with Denethor)
Neldoreth Rangers (2hcw/longbow ambushers with Laiquendi Lord)

Denethor
Laiquendi Lord

3 - THE HOUSES OF MANKIND

3.1 UNITS COMMON TO ALL LISTS

Edain Heavy Cavalry (swords)
Edain Medium Cavalry (throwing weapons)
Edain Light Cavalry (shortbows)
Edain Heavy Infantry (swords)
Edain Medium Infantry (swords)
Edain Light Infantry (bows)
Edain Artillery (balista)
Edain Light Train (to move balistas)


3.2 The House of Bëor

UNIT SPECIAL RULES
Mountain specialization

UNIQUE UNITS

The Well's Guard (heavy cavalry with Bregolas)
The Rivil Warband (extra-heavy pikemen with Barahir)
Eastern Marksmen (bowmen ambushers with Baragund)
Western Marksmen (bowmen ambushers with Belegund)
The Outhlaws of Dorthonion (special company with Barahir, Belegund, Baragund, Gorlim, and possibly Beren)

Beren Erchamion
Barahir
Bregolas
Baran
Emeldir the Manhearted
Baragund
Belegund
Gorlim


3.3 The House of Haleth

Woodland specialization, heavy troops limited.

UNIQUE UNITS

The Nobles of Brethil (2hcw heavy infantry with Haldir)
Ephel Brandir Militia (heavy bowmen with Brandir)
The Woodmen (2hcw/archer ambushers with Dorlas)
The Rivers Watch (medium archers with Haleth)
The Dragon Hunters (special company with Tùrin, Dorlas, and Hunthor)

Haldir
Haldad
Haleth
Haldar
Dorlas
Brandir
Hunthor


3.4 The House of Hador

Army that's part of the High Kings of the Noldor realm
Heavy troops specialization

Hisilòmë Phalanx (heavy pikemen)


UNIQUE UNITS

Rainbow Knights (lance, with Huor)
The Barad Eithel Watch (extra-heavy archers with Galdor)
Darthir Pass Guard (heavy spearmen with Gundor)

Hùrin Thalion
Tùrin Mormegil
Huor
Tuor
Hador Lòrindol
Morwen Eledhwen
Galdor
Gundor
Nienor Nìniel
Forweg
Andròg
Algund
Sador


3.5 The House of Bòr

Cavalry specialization

UNIQUE UNITS

Noble Knights (extra-heavy cavalry with Bór)
Sacred Band (2hcw berserkers with Borlach)
The Mountaineers (medium infantry with Borlad)
The Arrows Storm (heavy archers with Borthand)

Bór
Borlach
Borthand
Borlad



4 - THE DWARWEN STATE-CITIES

4.1 UNITS COMMON TO ALL LISTS

Khazâd Nobles (extra-heavy 2hcw)
Dwarf Heavy Infantry (sidearms)
Dwarf Medium Infantry (2hcw)
Dwarf Archers (shortbowmen heavy infantry)
Dwarf Heavy Artillery (trebuchet)
Dwarf Light Artillery (ballista)
Dwarf Heavy Train (to move trebuchet or balista)
Dwarf Light Train (to move balistas)


4.2 Belegost State-City

Belegost Phalanx (heavy spearmen)
Belegost Line Infantry (heavy sidearms & throwing weapons)

UNIQUE UNITS

Zigil-dûmu Guards (extra-heavy pikemen)
Gabilgathol Guards Phalanx (extra-heavy spearmen with Azaghâl or Borodruith)

Azaghâl
Bodruith


4.3 Nogrod State-City

Nogrod Blades (extra-heavy berserkers)
Nogrod Rangers (2hcw ambushers)


UNIQUE UNITS

Tumunzahar Guards (extra-heavy 2hcw with Nagladur)
Barazubarûk Rangers (heavy ambushers with Fangluin)

Nagladur
Telchar
Gamil Zirak
Fangluin Bluebeard


4.4 Moria State-City

This Realm can only be used as Allied.

Azalnubizar Volunteers (extra-heavy sidearms and throwing weapons)


UNIQUE UNITS

Gamilzaghâl Khazad-Dûmu (extra-heavy infantry with Durin I)

Durin I the Deathless



4.5 Amon Rûdh State-City

No Units Common to All Lists allowed.
Skirmishers and Stalk Unseen specialization.

Petty Dwarf Rangers (light ambushers, shortbow)
Petty Dwarf Heavy Infantry (sidearms)
Petty Dwarf Medium Infantry (sidearms)
Petty Dwarf Archers (medium infantry)


UNIQUE UNITS

Sharbundzaghâl (heavy infantry with Khîm)

Mîm
Khîm
Ibûn



5 – THE FORGOTTEN REALMS

Can only be used as Allied by other Noldor, Teleri, Mankind, or Dwarves realms.


5.1 The Avari Elves Realms

Hiding specialization

STANDARD UNITS

Avari Elf Cavalry (spearmen medium cavalry)
Avari Elf Rangers (ambushers)
Avari Elf Archers (medium)

Ëol


5.2 The Living Forests


STANDARD UNITS

Ent (ambusher)
Huorn (berserk ambusher)
Old-Man-Tree (special ambusher)

UNIQUE UNITS

Golosbrindi (epic monster)
Finglas (epic monster)
Fangorn (epic monster)
Faladrif (epic monster)
Fimbrethil (epic monster)


5.3 The Great Eagles

STANDARD UNITS

Great Eagle

UNIQUE UNITS

Thorondor (epic monster)
Ramandur (epic monster)


5.4 The Arcane Forces


STANDARD UNITS

Druedain Warband
Hobbit Hunters

UNIQUE UNITS

Huàn (epic monster)

The Twelve Companions (special company with Finrod Felagund, Edrahil, and Beren)
The Gaurwaiths of Neithan (special company with Tùrin Mormegil, Forweg, Andròg and Algund)

Celebrimbor
Galadriel
Olòrin the Disguised

Dior and Beor are in the penfding lists, they'll be added.
Any suggestion for a FA Tom Bombadil better than the TA one?



This is an ambitious projet, virtually great and that, overall, will best result if a collaborating team will be formed.

I'd like to know if there is someone interested in helping me in accomplishing this work.
All the volunteers will be welcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:13 pm 
Kinsman
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I would suggest including Ulfang and his men which were corrupted by Morgoth. Maybe to some effect as having the characters be him and his sons Ulfast, Ulwarth and Uldor and have one of them work the same way as Wormtongue does.

or have them entirely as a unique unit and have them arrive on turn 2+ on one of the sides of the table and they cannot be attacked by until they have charged/attacked first?

I love the idea btw.
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:53 am 
Kinsman
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generalripphook wrote:
I would suggest including Ulfang and his men which were corrupted by Morgoth. Maybe to some effect as having the characters be him and his sons Ulfast, Ulwarth and Uldor and have one of them work the same way as Wormtongue does.

or have them entirely as a unique unit and have them arrive on turn 2+ on one of the sides of the table and they cannot be attacked by until they have charged/attacked first?

I love the idea btw.


Thank you generalripphook.
Of course they will be enclosed, but in Morgoth lists, along with Brodda and Lorgan. I'm thinking for them about a special rule that would allow the controlling player to deploy them in the middle of the enemy army, and that forbids the latter to harm them until they declare the betrayal.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:17 pm 
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That's a supplement id like to play. Also the Noldor elves had bow cav.
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:33 pm 
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so, your goal is to basically create rules for all of the different units, heroes, and monsters?

Are you going to be looking for specific models for all of the different units?

I would be very interested if you are.
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:46 pm 
Kinsman
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(Doubled answer, see posts below.)

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:10 pm 
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This looks like a fantastic project, I shall continue to watch your efforts with great interest. Two things occurred to me, however.

The first is that Ereinion Gil-Galad might be more appropriate in the Nargothrond army list with Orodreth rather than the High Kings (Hithlum?) list with Fingon. Although he is described as the son of Fingon in the published Silmarillion, Christopher Tolkien has stated that was a mistake. It seems Tolkien intended Fingon to be childless, and Gil-Galad was meant to be the son of Orodreth.

The second problematic elf is Gildor Inglorion. Nobody really knows who Gildor is supposed to be. People debate whether "of the house of Finrod" should mean he is a son of Finrod Felagund, a son of Finarfin (Called Finrod in earlier drafts) or perhaps just a household servant of either of those two. Inglorion also points to Felagund, as Inglor was an early draft's name for the fellow. Even if it's impossible to peg down exactly who Gildor may be, there seems to be a strong association between Gildor and Finrod Felagund, so the Nargothrond army list may be the best place to put him.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:43 am 
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Glory4gondor wrote:
That's a supplement id like to play. Also the Noldor elves had bow cav.


You're right, Noldo cavalry may change shields with longbows for no costs. That's just a sum-up of the work, it is already immensely long and detailed. But it needs supervision by others, and playtesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:01 am 
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Feanorthenoldor wrote:
so, your goal is to basically create rules for all of the different units, heroes, and monsters?

Are you going to be looking for specific models for all of the different units?

I would be very interested if you are.


Yes, for ALL of them. Only the Vala-Vanyar-War of Wrath will be left aside - too much work for no-match a battle.

About models, GW of course represents the basis: there is really a lot of choice and of availability, and they are exceptionally well sculpted. But a few conversions and/or fantasy needed. Also, Mithril ones fit very well, and overall their dragons, trolls and balrogs. I don't like too much Jackson's love for gigantism: I think Silmarillion trolls should be lesser and deployed into small infantry formations, and may be the same for balrogs (flying cavalry?). On the other hand, GW trolls and balrogs do exist and are really beautiful, it would be a pity to ignore them.
So, by now, this could be the solution: player's choice. I'm providing a double version for these units: as a single huge monster (GW), and as lesser size company monsters (Mithril). The player must select one, and only one, between the two options.

Another figurines opportunity, very cheaper and so very interesting seen the numbers required by WOTR, is represented by the HO scale (Dark Alliance, Caesar, and others). There is not yet a very wide variety of boxes, but the numbers are increasing year after year, and the quality is no bad. It is sufficient to arrange 1" = 1 cm, and game rules fit perfectly - I have successfully played this way many times.

About me providing a specific model suggestion for each unit, this is uncertain by now, for it would represent a considerable adjuntive effort. But if you like the idea, you might help me in this aspect.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:11 am 
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Thurin wrote:
This looks like a fantastic project, I shall continue to watch your efforts with great interest. Two things occurred to me, however...



Yuo're perfectly right in your precisations. The problem is, I desperately needed for more Epic Heroes in Fingonfin/Fingon's army, whilst Nargothrond had already a lot of them.
Ereinion's and Gildor's precise origins represent a mistery, so I thought they were the right candidates for the task. In other words, sometimes to help game balance is better than to be very precise.
There are a few more of these licenses, here and there, like the entess Golosbrindi and the eagle Ramandur.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:20 am 
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There is always an ongoing interest in the epic wars from the Silmarillion. And it would seem you have a good in depth overview of the factions.

I am interested in this project, and have a working knowledge of the material, but not in-depth. But I do have a great deal of experience with the WotR system, after now nearly 5 years playing the game, and somewhere in the region approaching 180-200 games played. With particular interest in units, stats and balance.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:52 pm 
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daersalon wrote:
There is always an ongoing interest in the epic wars from the Silmarillion. And it would seem you have a good in depth overview of the factions.

I am interested in this project, and have a working knowledge of the material, but not in-depth. But I do have a great deal of experience with the WotR system, after now nearly 5 years playing the game, and somewhere in the region approaching 180-200 games played. With particular interest in units, stats and balance.


Excellent, Daersalon, your help would be precious. It is hard a work to complete these army lists, but it might be even harder to have them eventually forming a real, complete, balanced and, overall, interesting scenario.

I'd really appreciate your cooperation.

About myself, I've played perhaps just one-tenth of your games, but I have very long an experience in games with complex rules, in fantasy in general, and in researching deeply inside books.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:45 am 
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Folks, I made a WotR supplement for the battles of Gondolin and I offered it here. If you take a look you should find them.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:33 am 
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My son and I have done some pretty extensive development of First Age armies and have been playing them for months. We just did it for us but have been considering making a supplement out of what we have done. I'd be glad to share what we have. We even developed some of the Valar as well as many of the units you mentioned.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:15 am 
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The Gondolin lists are available here: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=26121

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:18 am 
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Killerkatanas wrote:
The Gondolin lists are available here: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=26121

Brian


Thank you Brian, now I successfully downloaded it.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:37 am 
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Gimli52 wrote:
My son and I have done some pretty extensive development of First Age armies and have been playing them for months. We just did it for us but have been considering making a supplement out of what we have done. I'd be glad to share what we have. We even developed some of the Valar as well as many of the units you mentioned.


That's great a news, Gimli52, for the more we are, the better. Nor me, nor you, nor Killerkatanas with Gondolin, I think, made our works for the satisfation of seeing our personal WOTR army list creation, but for the desire of finally having a good Beleriand army list to play with. So, if we can join together our efforts, we can extract the better from our works and from our creativity, and give life to a complete, high-quality, 1.1 Beleriand Scenario to put into playtesting.
The more will help us, the better the final result will be, I think.
About my own self-made interpretation, I need still a handful weeks or less to complete the 1.0 version, to be compared with yours for the next, jointed, develpment step.

Hope we can work together - this is also for Daersalon and Feanorthenoldor.

Cheers,

Gianluca

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:20 am 
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Hurin, your name is Gianluca?

My name is Gianluca too lol.

But yeah, i'm on board for this, seems like a cool project.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:47 am 
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Hurin,
I'd be glad to work with you guys. All of our units' stats are entered into an army builder data base. I'll put the lists into pdfs from that software first so you can get an idea of the direction we headed. We took a different approach to what Killerkatanas did in the Gondolin supplement he made (which is very nice, btw).

Due to the sparse nature, in terms of detail in the Silmarillion, each of us will interpret or imagine units quite differently at times. What we have done suits the types of games and scenarios we play. We use several of the house rules that are posted on this forum as well as a few of our own. Most of our choices in house rules are to solve inherent problems in the otherwise enjoyable game system. I will have to include the mention of these house rules as their use would be needed in order to maintain unit balance.

I too, hope we can work together on it. We find FA battles to be quite fun and it would be nice to share that with others.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:26 am 
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Feanorthenoldor wrote:
Hurin, your name is Gianluca?

My name is Gianluca too lol.

But yeah, i'm on board for this, seems like a cool project.


I'm Gianluca from Rome. And you, from where?

If I guess your interests, you could be helpful not only in the general discussion, to find out the best options to develop, but also to provide the final army list with the best fitting figurine images. Am I right?

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RESTITUERE INIURIAS, INIURIOS TORQUERE

Aurë entuluva!
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