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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:57 am 
Kinsman
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Gimli52 wrote:
Hurin,
I'd be glad to work with you guys...


I agree with with your impostation, Gimli52. To make this scenario is not just an occasion for a new and nice ambientation, but also for improving a good, but still imperfect game, overall now that it has been abandoned to its doom by its creator.
Me too have worked a little upon the rules, but probably with a different approach, limited to weapons, epic actions, units and heroes special actions, and cavalry. About balancement, I'm using an empiric algorythm to calcolate units costs - not perfect, but better than the method used for WoTR. We'll see together the better way for units costs.

As a start, I suggest to use this forum to discuss the matters, but to exchange long stuff only by email, or by making it available for download somewhere. Only single units stats, or single rules stuff, should pe posted here, I think.

I'll send my 1.0 to those who are interested in - just send me a private message with your email address.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:50 am 
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Hurin_it wrote:
Feanorthenoldor wrote:
Hurin, your name is Gianluca?

My name is Gianluca too lol.

But yeah, i'm on board for this, seems like a cool project.


I'm Gianluca from Rome. And you, from where?

If I guess your interests, you could be helpful not only in the general discussion, to find out the best options to develop, but also to provide the final army list with the best fitting figurine images. Am I right?



I'm from the US. I think I may be the only one from there with this name, haha.

But yeah, if you check out my WIP thread, i'm in the process of creating a noldor army from the first age, more specifically, an army representing the three houses of the sons of finwe.
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:56 pm 
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Hurin,

It would be a pleasure to work with you on rules, new units, etc. for First Age. I've been playing WOTR once or twice a week since 2009 when it first released. That's a lot of games. While the system really needed a second edition, it will likely never get one unless done by devoted fans. I don't have a large presence on the forums as that isn't my style, but I'd gladly help do a First Age Supplement. The development my son (aged 28 years) and I (aged 56 ouch) have done is largely due to real game experience.

Forgive any appearances of boastfulness on my part, it's just that we love this game and would have enjoyed seeing it developed more. I was planning a supplement on my own, but the chance to do so with others is promising. Let's do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:50 am 
Kinsman
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Gimli52 wrote:
Hurin,

It would be a pleasure...


I didn't play WoTR so much as you did. My sons are little (the older is 18) and play with me sometimes, but I think nowadays in Italy nobodyelse plays WoTR beyond us... I'm 52 and I played a lot of different games in my life, although I guess it's not the same thing. I really love Silmarillion, in my youth I did prefer it even to The Lord of the Rings, for it is full of poesy and sadness. It's a pity nobody attempted to valorize it until now - but, having seen Jakson's The Hobbit, may be it was better so...
Your experience is very precious, I'm sure we can reach a 5 stars scenario by joining our efforts and with the contribute of all the other players who will like to partecipate in the project.

I think the first step is to put into availability what we have done until now, for that material is the base. Media Fire might be the right place for downloads, like Kinsman already did.
And, another important matter, is to give life to the project by assigning to it a name, like "WoTR Beleriand Scenario", or (better) "The Silmarils War", or the like.
Any suggestions?

I'll post my own "1.0" in the next days - I'm currently working upon the last two armies. This is for contributing with a complete and organic basic idea, to be compared with yours and with eventual other ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:55 am 
Kinsman
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Killerkatanas wrote:
The Gondolin lists are available here: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=26121

Brian


Thank you, Brian. It's interesting a work.
Are you in the crew for the new project?

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 Post subject: aq
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:20 am 
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Hurin_it wrote:
I'm 52 and I played a lot of different games in my life, although I guess it's not the same thing.


Experience with other games is quite valuable and can be very helpful in thinking through possible solutions to a games particular problem. So, all your experience is valuable.

Too bad players are so few in your area. We have the same problem here.

Did you receive the material I sent?

I agree the project should have a name. I'll give that some thought. Anyone else with some ideas of what we be a great name for the project?

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:01 pm 
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War of the Ring: The Second Age

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A second Edition for The War of the Ring:http://wessexcodex.wordpress.com

Taking the War in Middle earth to a new level!
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:55 pm 
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daersalon wrote:
War of the Ring: The Second Age


Nice.

Perhaps,

The Silmarils - War of Exiled Elves
or
Fortress Angband and the War of Exiled Elves
or
The Catastrophe of Beleriand
or
The Breaking of the Siege of Angband
or...

Keep some ideas coming, we can sort them out and find the best.

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 Post subject: Re: aq
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:01 am 
Kinsman
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Gimli52 wrote:
Did you receive the material I sent?


I didn't. May be it was in the spams, I always erase them without putting a look. Could you please send me it again?

Gimli52 wrote:
I agree the project should have a name...


As the original was "The War of the Ring", what about "The War of the Silmarils" to keep the theme?

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Last edited by Hurin_it on Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:27 am 
Kinsman
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Feanorthenoldor wrote:
...i'm in the process of creating a noldor army from the first age...


Killerkatanas wrote:
The Gondolin lists are available here: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=26121



Excellent, for the more the ideas, the better the choices, and the best the final result.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:14 am 
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I think that the "Wars of Beleriand" would be a more fitting title.

Main reason for this was that before the Noldor returned to middle earth from exile, there were a few battles between the Teleri and Morgoth's hosts. Also, these few battles did not take place because of the Silmarils. I just read this chapter from the SIlmarillion haha.

What do you guys think?
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:03 pm 
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Feanorthenoldor wrote:
I think that the "Wars of Beleriand" would be a more fitting title.

Main reason for this was that before the Noldor returned to middle earth from exile, there were a few battles between the Teleri and Morgoth's hosts. Also, these few battles did not take place because of the Silmarils. I just read this chapter from the SIlmarillion haha.

What do you guys think?


That's a good point.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:05 pm 
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Hurin_it wrote:
Gimli52 wrote:
Did you receive the material I sent?


I didn't. May be it was in the spams, I always erase them without putting a look. Could you please send me it again?


Just did. Let me know if you got it.

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:50 am 
Kinsman
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Feanorthenoldor wrote:
I think that the "Wars of Beleriand" would be a more fitting title.

Main reason for this was that before the Noldor returned to middle earth from exile, there were a few battles between the Teleri and Morgoth's hosts. Also, these few battles did not take place because of the Silmarils. I just read this chapter from the SIlmarillion haha.

What do you guys think?



Even the Silmarillion touches a lot of story that does not involve the Silmarils.

Personally, I think it's very important to reflect both Tolkien's title ("The Silmarillion") and WotR 1st edition title ("War of the Ring"), thus in my opinion "War of the Silmarils", or perhaps "Wars of the Silmarillion" (= WotS :-D), are the better options, as these cover the tasks.

More opinions or proposals upon this point?

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:15 am 
Kinsman
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Hi everyone.
Along with Gimli52 we are planning now a much more ambitious project: a true WotR Silmarillion supplement book, and no longer a mere army list. We have joined our efforts for this purpose.
The suplement will enclose also some 10-15 scenarios of Silmarillion battles, each ranging 750-2500 pts per side: so, unlike WotR huge scenarios, only battles playable and enjoyable by everyone.
I have compiled a list of the battles that appear in Silmarillion; it is a long list, so only part of it will be developed into WotS scenarios.
I'd like to be supported in selecting the most suitable and playable ones.

Here follows the list:

1. The Battle of the Powers (Melkor's first defeat) – a) Melkor's last stand in Utumno (Tulkas' revenge)
2. Kinslaying at Alqualondë
3. The First Battle (Teleri and Dwarves vs. orcs) – a) death of Denethor
4. The Second Battle (Dagor-nuin-Giliath - “Battle-under-Stars”) - a) Dor Daedeloth skirmish and death of Fëanor
5. The Third Battle (Dagor Aglareb) – a) pursuing in Ard-Galen
6. Haleth's Stand and Caranthir's rescue
7. The Fourth Battle (Dagor Bragollach) – a) Felagund's stand and Barahir's rescue at Pass of Sirion; b) Siege of the fortress on Hill of Himring; c) Battle of the Pass of Aglon (OR of Maglor's Gap)
8. The most epic of all challeges – Fingolfin vs. Morgoth
9. The siege of Minas Tirith (Tol Sirion's Tower)
10. Ambush in the Forest of Brethil (Beleg's and Halmir's victory)
11. Siege of the Barad Eithel (Galdor's death and Hurin's rescue)
12. Sauron's defeat (Luthien and Huàn vs Draugluin and Sauron)
13. The Fifth Battle (Nirnaeth Arnoediad) – a) Gwindor's charge; b) Glaurung's defeat; c) the Treachery of Men; d) Fingon's death; e) Hurin's last stand
14. The fall of the Falas – a) The siege of Brithombar OR Eglarest
15. The storming of Bar-en-Danwedh (Mim's betrayal against Turin)
16. The Battle of Tumhalad (the fall of Nargothrond)
17. The Ruin of Doriath – a) the First Battle of Menegroth (dwarves attack and Mablung's death); b) the battle of Sarn Athrad (Beren's ambush upon dwarves); c) the Second Battle of Menegroth (Celegorm's attack and Dior's death)
18. The fall of Gondolin – a) battle at the Fountain (Gothmog's and Echtelion's death); b) ambush at Cirith Thoronath (Glorfindel's death)
19. The last kinslaying (Battle of Mouth of Sirion)
20. The War of Wrath (which episode?)

What do you think'

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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:19 pm 
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I think I'd better re-read the book before I can make any comment.
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:18 pm 
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This one is hard.

I think there is really only one scenario that sticks out and maybe shouldn't be included at the beginning.
This one is "The Battle of the Powers"

I think these should be put aside until we have the main races(elves, men, dwarves, orcs) down. Once this is done, we can easily have the resources and figures for all of the rest of the battles and scenario's, since most of them do not include a direct influence from the Valar.

Then, we can go back and put a focus on the Valar and other Maiar once we are finished with them. More specifically, we can look for suitable figures and miniatures to represent these "gods."
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:32 am 
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This is an ambitious project, and an exciting one. There's a lot of material to be drawn from in first age battles, and it will be a lot of fun to play. I personally would love to see a strategy battle game supplement as well as a war of the ring one. There are a lot of small-scale skirmishes throughout the earlier days of Arda that add a lot to the story. I'm happy to help out on this project as well as contribute to any potential future expansion into a strategy battle game supplement.
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:54 pm 
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After just a cursory glance at your impressive list of battles, it looks like you're missing the The Battle of Lhammoth with Fingolfin and the death of Argon, his son. This is pretty closely linked to The Second Battle of Belariand though, and isn't mentioned until Histories of Middle Earth; I think it wasn't in the Silmarillion at all
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 Post subject: Re: Silmarillion FA army list for WOTR
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:03 pm 
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Terribly sorry for the late reply. I have not been able to get to this site until today. I do not know what happened, but after deleting all my cookies the site came back up again.

In answer to Hurin's request, I am sorry, but I would not have the time to do such a thing now. I am a teacher and the school year has me swamped with work. I have not been able to play WoTR for several months now.

However, if you would like to bounce ideas off me go ahead and send me an email.

With regards to the scenarios, I would think some of the battles would need to approach 5,000 points. The reason for this is because you'll be having some battles using Balrogs and Dragons, and these things are a lot of points. When buying them, it does not lend itself much to buying rank-and-file troops.
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