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 Post subject: Warrior Troop Size Recommendations
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:50 am 
Wayfarer
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Just getting into the game. Looking for recommendations in regards to the typical warrior troop sizes in your collection? Trying to build out a well rounded collection. Once you decide to build out a particular army, how many foot and mounted warriors do you typically build and keep of that army type before you move on to collecting a different one? I understand I should try and have 1/3 bows, but do you have a general rule of thumb you use like two warbands (24) of foot warriors and perhaps one warband (12) of mounted warriors? Maybe you collect a certain point size of each type, or perhaps some other rule of thumb? How about the offshoot stuff like trolls, siege bows, catapults, ballistas, ents, eagles, etc.

Thanks in advance.
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 Post subject: Re: Warrior Troop Size Recommendations
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:29 pm 
Wayfarer
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Myself I am aiming for a Good army of Men, with different options but not a huge army.

So far I have:

12 Rangers / Archers
2 Archer Command
6 Dol Amroth Mounted Knights
1 Dol Amroth Mounted Captain
4 Dol Amroth Foot Knights
2 Dol Amroth Foot Knight Command
4 Dol Amroth Men-at-Arms
Prince Imrahil Foot & Mounted
6 Mounted Knights of Minas Tirith

So that's getting on for 40 models, and I'm planning on a couple more heroes and some more men of Gondor and mounted troops. Things like the Command are luxuries for experimentation and character rather than "competitive" things that will be constantly used.

My ideal was to have a battle line of 12 infantry with the higher defence in front then bow / pike behind.

In a lower point game I might split cavalry - especially mounted archers so that they can harass or threaten objectives.

I have not imagined playing above 500 points for now until I can learn the game and the dynamics of model movement and placement in battle better, so have excluded all thoughts of large monsters like ents and eagles and siege weapons from my mind.

They can be expensive / challenging models to build and transport too so for now I am aiming for things that can fit in my Citadel travel case without trouble!
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 Post subject: Re: Warrior Troop Size Recommendations
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:01 am 
Wayfarer
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Awesome. Thanks for sharing.

Looking through the Fallen Realms sourcebook. If I wanted to concentrate on building up an Isengard army, not including figures like named heroes, captains, banners, etc., how many warriors of each type would make up a well rounded army? It's a bit overwhelming when you start to factor in the many different weapon type combinations. I'm thinking two warbands of each type (mixed with bow, shield, spears, etc.). with the exception of the main Uruk-hai and Orc warriors (4-5 warbands each), Berserkers and Feral (1 warband each) and the off-shoot models like demolition teams, ballistas and trolls. Not sure if that's reasonable or not. Sorry. I'm a little OCD.

Uruk-hai warrior models are listed as following.

Uruk-hai Scouts (also with bows and shield)
Uruk-hai Warriors (also with crossbows, with pike and with shield)
Uruk-hai Berserkers
Feral Uruk-hai (if by miracle I could find some...lol)
Isengard Trolls (also with spear)
Dunlending Warriors (also with bow, with shield and two-handed weapon)
Wildman of Dundland (also with two handed weapon and without)
Warg Riders (also with throwing spears, with bows and with shield)
Orc Warriors (also with bow, with shield, with spear and with two handed weapon)
Ruffians (also with bow and with whip)
Isengard Assault Ballista
Uruk-hai Demolition Team

Would something like this be reasonable?

Scouts - 8
Scouts with bow - 8
Scouts with shield - 8
Warriors - 12
Warriors with crossbows - 12
Warriors with pike - 12
Warriors with shield - 12
Berserkers - 12
Feral - 12
Troll - 1
Troll with spear - 1
Dunlending - 6
Dunlending with bow - 6
Dunlending with shield - 6
Dunlending with two handed weapon -6
Wildman - 12
Wildman with two handed weapon - 12
Warg Riders - 6
Warg Riders with bows - 6
Warg Riders with spears - 6
Warg Riders with shield - 6
Orc - 12
Orcs with bow - 12
Orcs with shield - 12
Orcs with spear - 12
Orcs with two handed weapons - 12
Ruffians - 8
Ruffains with bow - 8
Ruffians with whip - 8
Assault Ballista - 2
Demolition Team - 2 (3 each)

Total Model Count for Isengard = 202
I have a feeling that may be a bit much. If so, where would be a good place to cut?
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 Post subject: Re: Warrior Troop Size Recommendations
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:48 am 
Craftsman
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Wow - that is somewhere between 2x and 3x as many models as you'd likely ever need, not to mention, you haven't included Saruman, Vrasku and all the other very good named heroes...

Here's an quick edit on your list - again just rough numbers...this cuts it down to about 120 or so... and again, in a standard 700 pt or 800 pt game, you'd only be using around 40-50 of these at any given time

Scouts - 4
Scouts with bow - 4
Scouts with shield - 8
Warriors with crossbows - 10
Warriors with pike - 10
Warriors with shield - 10
Berserkers - 12
Feral - 6
Troll with spear - 1
Dunlending with bow - 4
Dunlending with shield - 4
Dunlending with two handed weapon - 4
Wildman - 6
Wildman with two handed weapon - 4
Warg Riders with bows - 4
Warg Riders with spears - 4
Warg Riders with shield - 4
Orcs with bow - 4
Orcs with shield - 12
Orcs with spear - 12
Orcs with two handed weapons - 4
Ruffians - 4
Ruffains with bow - 2
Ruffians with whip - 2
Assault Ballista - 1
Demolition Team - 1 (3 each)

Total Model Count for Isengard = 120 or so I think, didn't count it all up.

And also consider most people don't use models like Ruffians, Dunlendings, or Orcs in most standard Isengard lists - that's cut your numbers down another 50 or so....

Just build slowly, I'd venture most of us on this site have over bought, especially early on. You end up with a large backlog and it can be overwhelming staring at a pile of 100+ models waiting for their turn on the painting table

Good luck

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But Gollum, and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her..
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 Post subject: Re: Warrior Troop Size Recommendations
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:03 am 
Wayfarer
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Awesome. Thank you for those suggestions.

I thought about cutting the orcs down to 12 to simply cover any unmounted Warg Riders, but I figured I could also use them for a Mordor army as well. It's my understanding that the regular Orc Warriors and Warg Riders in the Isengard list are the same as the regular Orc Warriors (not the Morannan kind) and Warg Riders in the Mordor list. So, I can at least get double use out of those.
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 Post subject: Re: Warrior Troop Size Recommendations
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:13 am 
Elven Warrior
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Well, there is no hard and fast rule concerning ratios of mounted troops or so. I rarely see any cavalry in a Galadhrim/Wood Elf force, while Rohan or Harad can field decent all-mounted forces. Bows at 1/3rd (or whatever the force's limit is, 1/2 sometimes) will often be the case (there is a limit for a reason: having ranged weapons is good), although some forces with poor shooting (Moria, to a lesser extent Mordor) can go without any altogether.

In your particular case, I'd say there are two ways to go about it. Do you want to focus on collecting figures (having some of each type), or do you want to focus on collecting an army? Altough you will of course be able to field a decently sized force if you have collected some figures for each profile in the Isengard list, it's unlikely to perform very well on the table. Just the sheer number of different profiles on the table may get confusing! Starting in the reverse may then be more practical: choose a particular theme (Dunland, Scouts, siege of the Hornburg/Helm's Deep), calculate a 500-700pts army and then get the required models for that. For example, I've never seen an army with a handful of Ruffian archers, Uruk-hai scouts with bows, Uruk-hai crossbowmen and Warg Riders with bows. Instead, the full ranged contingent would be made up fully of a single one of those - some people like the power of a crossbow, others the optional mobility of normal bows, then choosing either those carried by decent combatants (Uruk-hai) or ones that are cheap and shoot just as well (Ruffians) (Orcs are pretty terrible either way, so probably won't make the list at all - unless given spears and used for the occasional shot rather than as dedicated archers).

That said, you can of course have a force with a good few different troop types - a solid core of Uruk-hai warriors with a fast group of Mauhur-led scouts on the flank and some warg riders on the other. Even so, you are unlikely to ever want several of all types of profile, while wanting more than a few of others. With countless variations, a collection is never really done - you may at some point want to expand your warband of scouts in order to have a small force of them, or see how a big warband of warg riders will do - but it's much more practical to see what you will need at the very least to have a playable force, and then expand on that depending on what you think will add nicely to it.
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 Post subject: Re: Warrior Troop Size Recommendations
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:57 am 
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Thanks for the feedback. Definitely gives me something to think about. I wasn't necessarily thinking about trying to field too many different warrior types in a single battle. Just thinking I'd like the option to be able to mix and match units of a particular army on any given day for a pts match. Today I go with Wargs and Scouts. Tomorrow, I may feel like an all Uruk-hai warrior force. The next time Dunlendings, etc. Deep down, I have to admit that I really would very much like to have some figures of each type.

But, I can wait as I see your point. I think I am going at it the wrong way. I may be better of focusing on themes either by force types or by scenarios as you suggest. That will allow me to focus on collecting figures for only those at the moment. Then, gradually over time I will build my collection out and hopefully achieve my end desire as well. Thanks

Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Well, there is no hard and fast rule concerning ratios of mounted troops or so. I rarely see any cavalry in a Galadhrim/Wood Elf force, while Rohan or Harad can field decent all-mounted forces. Bows at 1/3rd (or whatever the force's limit is, 1/2 sometimes) will often be the case (there is a limit for a reason: having ranged weapons is good), although some forces with poor shooting (Moria, to a lesser extent Mordor) can go without any altogether.

In your particular case, I'd say there are two ways to go about it. Do you want to focus on collecting figures (having some of each type), or do you want to focus on collecting an army? Altough you will of course be able to field a decently sized force if you have collected some figures for each profile in the Isengard list, it's unlikely to perform very well on the table. Just the sheer number of different profiles on the table may get confusing! Starting in the reverse may then be more practical: choose a particular theme (Dunland, Scouts, siege of the Hornburg/Helm's Deep), calculate a 500-700pts army and then get the required models for that. For example, I've never seen an army with a handful of Ruffian archers, Uruk-hai scouts with bows, Uruk-hai crossbowmen and Warg Riders with bows. Instead, the full ranged contingent would be made up fully of a single one of those - some people like the power of a crossbow, others the optional mobility of normal bows, then choosing either those carried by decent combatants (Uruk-hai) or ones that are cheap and shoot just as well (Ruffians) (Orcs are pretty terrible either way, so probably won't make the list at all - unless given spears and used for the occasional shot rather than as dedicated archers).

That said, you can of course have a force with a good few different troop types - a solid core of Uruk-hai warriors with a fast group of Mauhur-led scouts on the flank and some warg riders on the other. Even so, you are unlikely to ever want several of all types of profile, while wanting more than a few of others. With countless variations, a collection is never really done - you may at some point want to expand your warband of scouts in order to have a small force of them, or see how a big warband of warg riders will do - but it's much more practical to see what you will need at the very least to have a playable force, and then expand on that depending on what you think will add nicely to it.
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 Post subject: Re: Warrior Troop Size Recommendations
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:29 am 
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I think anytime we get bitten by the hobby bug, the desire is to buy lots of lead, resin and plastic and get a bit carried away!

So I guess from bitter experience I would caution you to pick one group of models at a time and try and paint and get them finished - to give you the impetus to move onto the next warband. There's nothing so dispiriting as buying loads of models, then losing the energy to paint them. :-X
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 Post subject: Re: Warrior Troop Size Recommendations
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:11 am 
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Sounds like some wise advice to me. But, depending on what you define as loads of models, I suspect that advice might have arrived too late... :oops:

Thanks for sharing...

Lothíriel wrote:
I think anytime we get bitten by the hobby bug, the desire is to buy lots of lead, resin and plastic and get a bit carried away!

So I guess from bitter experience I would caution you to pick one group of models at a time and try and paint and get them finished - to give you the impetus to move onto the next warband. There's nothing so dispiriting as buying loads of models, then losing the energy to paint them. :-X
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 Post subject: Re: Warrior Troop Size Recommendations
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:13 pm 
Kinsman
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Indeed - that's a pretty ambitious list. I'd think you wouldn't need anywhere near that much. For starters, I'd decide what kind of a list do you want to play? Uruk-Hai? Dunland? Ruffians? Pick one and stick with that - at least early on.

If you're picking Uruk-Hai (the most traditional list, and probably the most solid core Isengard troop types), I think I'd boil it down to the scouts, armored warriors, crossbows and a few berserkers (6 is a good start - you can expand as needed). That's enough to get you started. Add more Berserkers and/or Warg Riders next if you're looking to expand. Maybe then a troll.

For cavalry, I don't think you need to paint up a full warband of 12. Start with a half warband of 6. That's a good amount to start with. Maneuvering a full 12 cavalry around can be tricky anyway, so that's a reasonable starting point.

Good luck!
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